Athena, Clydesdale and Novice divisions--why?

I barley reach reach the weight limit for the athena group. For IMFL this year I won't. How embarrassing

Sheldon

Are you cross-dressing for the event?

289lb Trinewbie. The clydesdale division is a def plus because you are actually "racing" against a relevant group. It's optional BTW, so if you're fast enough and want to, then just go age-grouper. I imagine many Athenas do.

Think of it from another perspective, it also keeps "generally" slower group (as you have all pointed out, some can haul some serious tail) out of the way of the rest of the group. Being 33, there is no sense in me being in the 30-33yr old male wave, I would get creamed by everyone in there and heck, the 34-37's would be walking over my head to get me out of the way. That makes no sense.

I've heard from some Athena's that they dig it because it's a social thing, they all are supporting each other and that helps them get over the embarassment factor of admitting their weight.

Of my 2 Tri's to date - one made me get on a scale (which read TILT) and the other was honor system.

I think Novice is good - never seen it, but it makes sense - get all the newbies together and out of the way so they don't get freaked and they don't get in the way. More fun for everyone.

Before I had my first race I joked that I wanted to get a shirt printed up which read "YOU CARRY 150 extra pound and then just TRY to beat me!", but darnit, everyone is just to darn nice at every event I've been at! Worse problems to have, eh? :duh:

yeah.....maybe they should level the playing field in pro football or baseball--where the Doug Fluties of the world only have to compete against men of their size. Weight division doesn't always level the playing field as Genie pointed out. A short person like me would have to be FAT to compete in the Athena division.

So it's easy to see.....I think they are stupid. The groups should be novice, ag, elite. period. If the 6'5" 250# man of steel feels he can't compete---too bad. Just like the 5'3" 120# Kenyan would never be seen in football uniform.

edited to add: triathlons include swimming as an event......fat is more buoyant than muscle.....so there already "is" an advantage to the "fat" athlete.

Maybe we should have body fat division instead of weight divisions. :)

But professional football is just that... professional. The professional runners who do it as a career are never in the athena or clydesdale division. Now if you take a look at a local flag football team, you may have a 5'3" 120 lb Kenyan who has no business being on a professional football team. He or she may just enjoy competing, and likes that the lesser leagues allow him/her to compete without being crushed by people more than twice his/her size.

Good points Mech. The local road races are not intended for the professional runners (even though they may occasional compete in them).

But professional football is just that... professional. The professional runners who do it as a career are never in the athena or clydesdale division. Now if you take a look at a local flag football team, you may have a 5'3" 120 lb Kenyan who has no business being on a professional football team. He or she may just enjoy competing, and likes that the lesser leagues allow him/her to compete without being crushed by people more than twice his/her size. :1: Mech and Sonny. The Doug Flutie comparison, Sue, is not exactly fair. To put the Flutie comparison into a more accurate perspective, we would have to look at something like the Olympic Trials or even the Prefontaine Classic. These are elite runners at the top of their field in their chosen event (just like Flutie as a quarterback). They are competing against the best the world has to offer. For these events, being successful is based on raw talent, training, and the ability to perform at that highest level. On the other hand, if you look at most road races, these are "fun runs" and accept runners of all abilities. Some will have a minimum ability level or pace that the runner has to be able to meet (6 hours at some marathons), but having a Clydesdale division is not much different than having various age groups. Some races break the AG out into 5 year intervals, others into 10 year intervals. If we accept your position, Sue, then perhaps there shouldn't be 5 year intervals because a 22 year old runner can't compete against the best 26 year olds but can do well against 20-25 yr olds. I'm stretching your point, i think, but the implication can be found there. Also, how would you define Novice? Over a 10 minute mile? First race only?

novice for triathlete s/b = fun run for running races. Therefore all the above could compete in just that. If a person feels that their "weight/height" is detrimental they can keep registering in that category. Age-groupers have to make that decision at some point. I know some triathletes that stay in the age-group division because they like to win. However, sometimes it will bite them in the foot. Many times in triathlons AGers will actually beat out many of the "elites".....but because they chose to register as an AG rather than pro.....they will miss out on the $$ also

I beg to differ. First of all the weight divisions are used in triathlons and there "are" pro triathletes competing with Age-groupers. Triathletes must register as one or the other. period. If the triathlete likes the hardward that comes with being a top age-grouper, they can play all they want in that field. But they can turn in a better time than Mr. Pro and it's only going to count in the age-group division.
So, if you put the same in a running race. You enter as a clydesdale, fine......you can be the top clydesdale. But, registered as a clydesdale and beat all the elites.....guess what????? you'd go home with your nice clydesdale trophy and the skinny elite guy goes home with an elite prize.
Okay....let's lower my Doug Flutie comparison.
I like playing VB. I was pretty darn good at one time. I'm not olympic material, I'm not pro, I'm rec player. Wouldn't it be nice if I only had to play against people 5'4" and under???? It isn't fun to have 6'5" amazon lady slamming it down my face. I think we should have height limits......afterall, we are all recreational players and all.

:1: Mech and Sonny. The Doug Flutie comparison, Sue, is not exactly fair. To put the Flutie comparison into a more accurate perspective, we would have to look at something like the Olympic Trials or even the Prefontaine Classic. These are elite runners at the top of their field in their chosen event (just like Flutie as a quarterback). They are competing against the best the world has to offer. For these events, being successful is based on raw talent, training, and the ability to perform at that highest level. On the other hand, if you look at most road races, these are "fun runs" and accept runners of all abilities. Some will have a minimum ability level or pace that the runner has to be able to meet (6 hours at some marathons), but having a Clydesdale division is not much different than having various age groups. Some races break the AG out into 5 year intervals, others into 10 year intervals. If we accept your position, Sue, then perhaps there shouldn't be 5 year intervals because a 22 year old runner can't compete against the best 26 year olds but can do well against 20-25 yr olds. I'm stretching your point, i think, but the implication can be found there. Also, how would you define Novice? Over a 10 minute mile? First race only? Why can't a 22 yr old compete against a 26 yr old? I don't see your point at all. When I get myself on the line.....I'm racing agaist the clock and everyone in front of me....age regardless. There is only one winner in a race. The age grouping stuff is just a formality and a RD can make them whatever they want. Most sporting events "do" however have some form of age grouping (masters & seniors). They are different ages. I could be wrong but master swimmers= 30. Then there are sports that have weight classifications: wrestling and weightlifting. But with running we should have both----just keep watering it down so some fat putz can bring home some brass on 20 mpw :cry: And I thought runners were about being the best they can be. Maybe instead of trying to lose these 8 pounds.....I should pack on another 30. I'm going to be the best master Athena in the nation :moon:

Funny, you should mention that sue. I'm only ~ 5 lbs of muscle away from the Clydesdale division at some races. :)
I think running and triathalons are two different sports and thus the competition in them should be viewed somewhat differently. No one rolls out of bed one morning and competes in a triathalon. It takes preparation and more importantly you need a bike & other specific equipment. On the other hand, you see many brand newbies attempt a 5K for instance. I don't have a particular point here, other then I don't think its fair to compare strict road races with triathalons.

Funny, you should mention that sue. I'm only ~ 5 lbs of muscle away from the Clydesdale division at some races. :)
I think running and triathalons are two different sports and thus the competition in them should be viewed somewhat differently. No one rolls out of bed one morning and competes in a triathalon. It takes preparation and more importantly you need a bike & other specific equipment. On the other hand, you see many brand newbies attempt a 5K for instance. I don't have a particular point here, other then I don't think its fair to compare strict road races with triathalons.
Again, I disagree. I still see plenty of schwinns at triathlons. They probably didn't roll out of bed that morning.....as triatholons usually fill up quickly around here. But many are totally unprepared. I know a few swimmers that just sort of "finish out". They want to be first to hit the beach and then lolagag on their bike and then gallowalk.
I do miss your point. A person has an epiphany overnight and decides to run a 5k. Do you think that they should be rewarded their own category? Let's hand them a trophy in the "I got my lazy butt out of bed and I want a reward" category. Instant gratification!!!! Sorry, but I think it's a little bit different for the midpacker that has been getting up everyday to run, changed their diet over the past 6 months and tapered for their race and they receive their first ever 3rd place AG medal. THAT is a special moment and I don't want it watered down or taken away.
If RD keep adding more categories, it takes that moment away. If you add more categories, the awards ceremonies get WAY too long. I don't know about you....but I'm NOT going to stick around to go 5 places deep in every category known to man to please all participants. You might as well go back to the days when you were 5 y/o and running your first fun run and when you crossed the line.....you got a ribbon that said "participant".

Sue, IMHO your logic doesn't hold.

With your logic, there should be NO groups. Everyone competes and there is just one "winner" and then everyone else.

Yeah?

:1: There's only one race winner. Everyone else came in after him/her.