Hi Mel, K8 here. u and I are the same. im trying to get off the K too. I dont eat junk food or suger or sodas. I cant register on this site either. i guess we will have to catch MM when we can. I been on K 15 yrs. female 55 yrs old. Im developing my withdrawel plan then will do it. my Dr gave me a plan that was too fast. I c my neurologist soon so will invole him also. good luck. ill be checking in. we can do it.. K8in Az
Mel and K8... I'm not sure why you are having difficulty sending an email to me, but I do know that you have to be registered for those "send" buttons to appear. But, I'm going to throw myself on the mercy of Steady Health and post that email that I spoke of that provides the links.
K8, you have the right idea. Take it very very slow. If you follow my very long post from the beginning, you will note that I tried to get off of it cold turkey and it did not work. In fact, it worked so badly that I had to leave my job, which, of course, did not help things. I really think you should set yourself a goal of between 3 - 6 months. If you've been on it a long time, then probably more to 6 months. My diary post will tell you how long it took me.
I want to stress to both of you this one very important thing. This is not an "run of the mill" drug. It is a powerful one, and so you do want to work with your doctor to try to come off of it. But, explain to your doctor that you would rather not use another drug to come off of this drug. He or she might look at you as if you have two heads, but ask it anyway. Who knows, they might be enlightened and have a way. BUT EVEN IF YOU DO GO TO AN MD, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get with a BOARD CERTIFIED nutritionist and to work in parallel with what you are doing with the MD. I keep stressing this, and it is very important to understand that your nervous system has become dependent upon clonazepam (Klonopin), and you must slowly start eating foods and taking supplements to get off of it. Eventually, you will probably only need to keep eating nutritious food and perhaps the multi-vitamin that I've suggested above. Please get the professional support you need from the MDs AND the board certified nutritionist.
K8, I think the tea you are speaking of is the Yogi Stomach Ease tea, which has the licorice in it. Good tea! You both mentioned that you do not eat sugar or soda. But, do you eat the right kinds of food? No red meat. The chemicals that are pumped into cattle nowadays, you do NOT want in your system. Try your best to focus like a lazer on vegetables. Dark green leafy vegetables are great. Broccoli the first thing in the morning is great. It is the vegetables that will help you. Stay away from snack and other processed foods for as long as you can, and definitely while you are coming off this drug.
And you are right, K8, if I can get off the drug...so can you and Mel.
OK, I am going to simply cut and paste the email.
The first email was to the same person who asked me about the difficulty she was having sleeping. While I look for the other email, I am going to post this as well, as it might prove helpful to you at some point, though it does not address the withdrawals of coming off the drug.
Anywhere you see an XXX is where I've X'ed out the name of the person I was writing to. Sleep might be difficult while you come off the drug, and so the following might be of help.
You asked about tryptophan. Here is yet another nutrient that was attacked unfairly by some in the medical (or I should say drug) community. They did all they could to have it taken off the shelves, and they were successful...for a while. What happened is that there was some tainted tryptophan released by a company in, I believe, Japan. The result were deaths and horrible deformities in babies. The drug companies wanted tryptophan off the market for the simple reason that it works for sleep! And, it was cheap and they couldn't control it. However, after many years, the health food industry put its lawyers and researchers into this and proved that tryptophan was not the problem. The problem was the manufacturer who simply tried something (or modified something in the way they produced it ... my memory is getting foggy on the precise issue) that went terribly wrong. Eventually, the health food industry won the law suit and tryptophan was placed back onto the market and there have been no problems. I, myself, have used it.
However, I am using what Dr. Michael Murray suggested and that is: L-5-HYDROXYTRYPTOPHAN. I cannot remember if I told you about Dr. Michael Murray, but he is DEFINITELY one person you should know about. He is a world renown expert in natural medicine. Here is his website. Bookmark it and go to it OFTEN and read
I want to be careful in what I write to you, but I guess about three or four years back, I made up a 3x5 card of what Dr. Murray recommended for sleep. Right now, I cannot find the exact article on his website. It might be in the archives or there might be an update. What he talked about was slowly building up to the following ... but, only taking what you need, i.e., a person might not need all of these for sleep. In my case, I had to build up to the full amount slowly and take all of them. So, I am asking that you use caution. I still have that 3x5 card and these nutrients were taken by me one hour before bedtime. I will simply write them out for your information:
B12 METHYLCOBALAMIN (SUBLINGUAL) - 5000 MCG (NOTE: SUBLINGUAL IS UNDER THE TONGUE AND...NOT JUST B12 BUT METHYLCOBALAMIN, AS THAT IS IMPORTANT ... ALSO THAT IS MCG **NOT** MG)
MELATONIN (SUBLINGUAL) - 2.5 - 3.0 MG
L-5-HYDROXYTRYPTOPHAN - 100 MG
L-THEANINE - 200 MG
VALERIAN - 220 MG
The issue of SUBLINGUAL is important. Settle for nothing less.
Again, don't just start taking all of these at once. Start at the top and work your way down over a two-week period. You might find that just the B12 and the Melatonin work for you. Or, you might be like me and need all of them. Just take it SLOWLY, e.g., take the B12 for two days and see how you are. If you are still having problems, then continue with the B12 and add the Melatonin for two more days. If you are OK, fine. If not, take the B12, melatonin, L-5-Hydroxytryptophan, and so forth.
Other than the Douglas Laboratories brand, I use the Natural Factors brand. It is made in Canada and they have very high standards. If you cannot get Natural Factors brand, just go to a health food store and ask for the best QUALITY brand. That might not mean the most expense. REALLY ask a knowledgeable person at the store (not some temp clerk) WHY they are recommending the brand.
So...Mel and K8, that what what I sent to the woman in Europe about sleep help. Again, this is what I have studied and used. Just take things slowly.
OK...here is the longer email. I hope Steady Health keeps it on this post, but it is up to them, and I don't know if I'm breaking rules, which I do not want to do. I hope this helps in some way. Good luck my friends and DO get with a board certified nutritionist. I think I've beat on that drum enough that you know the importance of what I am saying.
Here's the email (NOTE: I have not had time to recheck the links, but the email is from December 26, 2012, and so they will, hopefully, still be active, or you can do a search on the internet.
OK...I've found some things on Amazon.
1 - GABA. It is Pharma GABA, by Natural Factors. You will recall my talking about Dr. Michael Murray. He recommends this brand and so do I. You can get on the Amazon subscribe and save even more money. I'm not sure how Amazon works in Europe, but here is the link in the states:
DOSAGE FOR YOU: Take two, three times a day, i.e. one at breakfast, lunch, and dinner
2 - Pregnenolone. Here is the Amazon link for this:
DOSAGE FOR YOU: This is a sublingual tablet and should be melted under your tongue. Take one, three times a day, i.e. breakfast, lunch, and dinner. This is a Douglas Laboratories, which I take and is another high-quality manufacturer of nutrients.
3 - GastroMycin. Here is the Amazon link for this:
DOSAGE FOR YOU: Take one capsule 15 minutes BEFORE you have your breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You can take a fourth capsule 15 minutes before you have a snack at night. A word of caution. You should have your snack be a light one and should be finished with it no later than 2 hours before going to bed. GastoMycin will help settle the acid in your stomach and take some of that pain away. Water will, too, as I've suggested in the past. Also, drink a FULL glass of water when you take this.
4 - Licorice Extract. Here is the Amazon link for this:
DOSAGE FOR YOU: This is something that you want to take BETWEEN meals. Each person is different, but in our case, we want to keep the acid down, and so instead of taking it at meal time, people in our situation take it between meals. Again this is Natural Factors and so you are assured of quality. So, again, take one between each meal and one JUST BEFORE bedtime. For example. If you have lunch at noon and dinner at five, then take one around 3. If you feel acid and pain building up before then, then take it sooner. Do not take more than the recommend dosage. It tastes good, but it is not candy. :)
5 - AdrenaCalm. Here is the Amazon link for this:
DOSAGE FOR YOU: This is a cream. It should be applied three times a day. It does not have to be applied with your meals. Just three times a day. BUT...here is what is important. Once you have applied it FIVE times in one area, you must change to a different area of your body. If you do not, it will not be as affect. AsDr xxxxx would say, there gets to be a "traffic jam" and it is less effective. This is a good product and can be taken, even after you are off of clonazepam. I make a 3x5 card, but be sure to write the following down someplace, so that you can keep a record of it. This list should be as follows: INSIDE OF LEFT ANKLE JUST BELOW ANKLE BONE, INSIDE OF RIGHT ANKLE JUST BELOW ANKLE BONE, INSIDE OF LEFT KNEE (note: that's behind he knee cap), INSIDE OF RIGHT KNEE, INSIDE OF LEFT ELBOW (note: not on elbow bone but on the other side where the elbow bends), INSIDE OF RIGHT ELBOX, LEFT CHEST, RIGHT CHEST. So, after you have this list, start with the "inside of left ankle" and apply it there three times a day for five days. Again, keep a record of how you apply it (make X's or whatever). After three days, move to the next area, which would be "inside right ankle" and so forth, until you get to "right chest". Once you have finished with "right chest," then start over at the beginning, i.e., "inside of left ankle just below ankle bone". You might want to make up a new paper so you don't get confused, or scratch through the "X's".
As mentioned, the above are all found on Amazon. The last two are not. But, I'll try to provide some information.
6 - Mil Adrene Forte. This is manufactured by Miller Pharmacal Group, Inc You might try emailing them at and seeing if they can help you with the order, i.e., tell you where you could get it or actually ordering it directly from them.
DOSAGE FOR YOU: You should take one tablet three times a day, i.e. one at breakfast, lunch, and dinner
7 - ORA-CAL 25. This might be tricky to get. The company that has this is Plymouth Bell Laboratories: 953 Pennllyn Blue Ridge Pike Blue Ball, PA 19422 phone:
DOSAGE FOR YOU: Like the licorice extract, you take these to help reduce the acid it your stomach. Though they can be simply swallowed, I suggest that you chew them. Try chewing two at a time. Unlike licorice extra, you can chew on as many of these as you like each day. So, if the pain is starting up in your stomach, reach for this bottle. They are tasty, so don't go overboard on them, but you CAN chew as many as you like throughout the day.
If you cannot get 6 and 7, it won't be the end of the world, so to speak, as 1 - 5 are very helpful. But, if you can get 6 and 7, do so.
That is pretty much that. Of course, you must continue to eat right, as I have explained in the past. You will want to take the above while you are coming off of clonazepam. And, while you are off clonazepam, I highly suggest that you stay on these as a daily regimen, or at least the following: GABA, pregnenolone, and AdrenaCalm. These will help keep your body more at rest and less likely to have to relapse back to clonazepam.
I also want to stress the importance of getting to bed early. Sleep is critical for you. Drink a lot of water. Stay away from caffene in all forms (e.g., tea, coffee, soda).
Good luck with all of this. I hope it helps. But, remember...these are natural products. It takes time for them to become affective, and so take them and take them on a regular and consistent basis.
Hang in there K8 and Mel.
Thanks MM, and thanks moderator for letting much of this post remain. I felt really bad after eating a half bologna sand-which i have not done in ages and wont do again. i will get my products and try again. Will keep u posted. Thanks K8
K8 ... I figured that Steady Health would not allow the links, but maybe you can piece the information of the nutrients together to find them. Remember there is that big internet site that starts with an "A" and ends with an "n". :)
Mel, my friend, I must break away from giving you more advice. I really believe you need to find a board certified nutritionist in your area. The one in Florida could help you, but the law requires the nutritionist to see you at least once before giving treatment. So, do your best to find one in your area.
But to answer some of your questions...yes, when I was on clonazepam and coming off of it, my visions became quite blurry. Feelings of panic and trembling internally were felt as well. Much of what you are going through has been a part of the lives of many of us who have had to deal with clonazepam.
I could try to give you further advice, but it would pretty much be the repeat that is already posted throughout two years of posts on this subject by me.
Work with your doctor and find that nutritionist (board certified). In the meantime, try taking Pharma Gaba or just plain Gaba which you can get from the health food or some grocery stores. Your goal should be to find the right food and the right balance in life that will propel you away from what is stressing you and move you to what is a blessing to your life.
This is only a guess, but the pains in the back and neck are possibly from the stress that your body is going through. Many of us place our stress in our necks especially. And, those who work at computers all day do so even more.
I also have another thought. And, you might now be open to this, but this might be a very real possibility. I have had a LOT of experience with chiropractors. You might have myriad subluxations in the back and the next. This is where a vertebrae presses down on a nerve. One time a doctor told me I had a rotator cuff problem and they were gearing up to operate on me. I just happened to see a nutritionist for my regular appointment. He also happened to be a GOOD (there are bad ones) chiropractor. I told him about the pain in my back and that is was so severe that I could not even raise my right arm. To make a long story short, he placed heat on my back and made an adjustment, and the pain was totally gone. I did not have a rotator cuff problem, I had a very bad subluxation in my upper thorax.
So...my suggestion is that you also go to a chiropractor. Do NOT go to these chiropractors who want to sign you up for a year for $2,000 or whatever. That's nonsense. Find a good chiropractor who will take his or her time with you and only charge you when you come in. That alone, might start to ease the pain you are experiencing. And, don't go just once. Take the time to take care of yourself. First, though, talk to people and ask them if they can recommend a good chiropractor. Again, be aware that some chiropractors just are not so good. Normally you will pay a little more on the first visit, as they have to spend more time with you and they have to set up your file, etc. But, when you start, stick with it for at least a couple months and see if you don't feel better. I now go once a month, just to keep my spine in alinement. Oh...and a couple of months ago, I was (stupidly) caring something way to big for me to carry. I actually dislocated one of my back ribs. It's called an articulated rib. Not a problem, this chiropractor put it back in less than 30 seconds.
That's about all I can do for you Mel. Until you see a chiropractor, should you get a pain in the back and neck, try using an ice pack to reduce any possible inflammation. If you have a hardwood floor or a kitchen floor, try to gently lay back on it. If you hear a lot of popping, that's OK. Just lie there for a while on your back.
Good luck, Mel. You must see the help of professionals, as I have suggested.
I am slowly withdrawing from this drug I would like to know what your experiencing. I was taking two 1 mg at night I am down to one but am having night sweats, legs cramps and kidney issues. All test are negative for a UTI. I am not going back on these bennys they were used for depression I want to know who I am again. Kellee
MM, K8 here. i am reading the PH Miracle. i looked up the author and he is known for being a quack. I am in agreement about eating more greens. im sure i will not buy his products. I skipped my K last night. took tonight. im thinking i shoud do a half rather than skip a 1 pill dose. im eating better, bought a juicer, take the hot shower, drink the teas. slowly gonna do it,but the ringing in my ears is so loud. I c my neurologist next week. Thx Kathy
K8 ... You are doing as you should. Yes, that ringing in the ears is a real pain, but it WILL go away, if you just stick with it. Unless a doctor tells you otherwise, it would be better to go to a 1/2 pill regimen instead of a full pill to a no pill (which is why somewhere in my post I recommended buying a simple pill cutter you can get at a chain drug store for around $5 or less). I think it would be good that you try something more like the following (this is just an example).
Week one: Monday (full pill), Tuesday (1/2 pill), Wednesday (full pill), Thursday (1/2 pill), Friday (1/2 pill), Saturday (1/2 pill), Sunday (1 pill).
Week two: Monday (1/2 pill), Tuesday (1/2 pill), Wednesday (1/2 pill) Thursday (1/2 pill), Friday (1/2 pill), Saturday (1/2 pill), Sunday (1/2 pill).
Week three (this is when it starts getting hard): Monday (1/2 pill), Tuesday (no pill), Wednesday (1/2 pill), Thursday (no pill), Friday (1/2 pill), Saturday (no pill), Sunday (1/2 pill).
Week four (now, it really gets hard): Monday (no pill), Tuesday (no pill), Wednesday (1/2 pill), Thursday (no pill), Friday (no pill), Saturday (1/2 pill), Sunday (no pill).
Week Five (if you haven't had stomach pains yet, now you will): Monday (no pill), Tuesday (no pill), Wednesday (1/2 pill), Thursday (no pill), Friday (no pill), Saturday (no pill), Sunday (1/2 pill).
Week six (you are almost there): Monday (no pill), Tuesday (no pill), Wednesday (1/2 pill), Thursday (no pill), Friday (no pill), Saturday (no pill), Sunday (no pill).
Week seven: Repeat week six.
Week eight: Repeat week six.
Week nine: No pills.
At the risk of repeating myself. You absolutely MUST replace something natural to take the place of the drug, so to speak AS YOU ARE COMING OFF OF THE DRUG!!! I know I listed a lot of nutrients in my post. If you cannot afford them all, then at least get some GABA and some of that Yogi Stomach Ease tea. All the time you are coming off of the drug, you must be replacing it not only with supplements, but even more importantly, with good nutritious food (and don't think I didn't catch that post a number of days ago about the bologna sandwich...that TRULY will set you back).
If (when) the stomach pains start, drink as much pure water as you can. It will probably hit you at night during your sleep. Get up and drink water. Do it as many times during the night as you need. Just remember to urinate when you have to, so you do not get water poisoning.
Hang in there! Just take it slow. There is no rush. Only a goal to get off of it. By the way, the above regimen is only a suggestion. What I am trying to convey is that this drug has you by the throat, and it is dangerous to come off of it quickly. So, however you do it, do it slowly but work out a process by which you reduce it slowly and then eliminate it altogether. You can do it in nine weeks or nine months. Just set up a plan and stick with it.
Hi Guest... If you are referring to me (Musicman), I am not experiencing anything, as I am off the drug and have been so for well over a year now. All of the withdrawal side affects that you are experiencing, we have or are experiencing (well, I'm not sure what you mean about kidney issues).
If you are getting leg cramps, there is actually a medical term for that when you get them at night, and I cannot remember it exactly, but it is like "nocturnal leg cramps". I know that's probably not it. But, whether you get it at night when trying to sleep or during the day, the biggest issue is that you are not drinking enough water for your body.
Our body is made up of mostly water. If you don't drink enough...and most people do not...then you are going to get leg cramps. I take Pilates. I can guarantee you that if I do not drink enough water during the day, I WILL be cramping up, which is why I always have a bottle of water (in a metal container) with me during the workouts.
As for what all I did to get off of the drug, just start at the beginning of my post and read, read, read. Yep, I know it's a lot, and I apologize for that, but there is a lot to communicate. Don't let the reading wear you down, but do take the time to read it.
You will find one "guest" who really did none of us any good with his/her remarks. I think both "Another Guest" and I had rather good responses to the post. So...read my post. Take your time. Come off the drug SLOWLY and tell us how you are doing.
You are not alone. You CAN do this.
Thank You MM. I look forward to your posts. LOL about the bologna. I c neuro on Wed. Im taking in your schedule, also some info by Heather Ashton MD. Will start a plan next week. Will update u after appt. Thanks a bunch. K8
K8 ... I'm glad my post about the bologna gave you a moment to smile. You will need your sense of humor and hope once you start to really push this drug out of your body. But once you do, and once you turn your eating habits around to more nutritious foods in a permanent life-changing manner, you will be happy you took the step.
Kellee ... just an add-on to my other post. Your mention of depression did not escape me. I was on clonazepam for REM sleep disorder. But, I have known depression in my life, and it is not fun. It is awful. I hope depression does not rear its ugly head again for you. But, if it does, take this thought and keep it in your heart: "do not ... I mean NEVER ... care about what other people think of you". This is YOUR life. It belongs to you; not someone else. NOBODY ELSE. You are not in this world to please others. And, trust me on this, you will never be able to please everyone.
If you can find a way to meditate for a few minutes each day, if it is only sitting with your eyes closed and gently breathing in and out and focusing on nothing else BUT your breathing, this will calm you. It will not be easy at first, especially. "Conversations" will come into your head. When they do, gently push them out of your mind and return to focusing on your breathing. You might only be able to do this for no more than 30 seconds the first day. Eventually, you will extend it to much longer time-frames. When you, do you'll feel better.
Do your best to get the junk out of your diet, if you have any in it, e.g., soda, junk foods, etc. And, I have found that going on long walks are great, too. In fact, they are critical. And, I do mean outside and not in some gym. I don't mean power walks, though those are good, too. But, go for extended walks of 30 minutes or more every day. You can use a portable music player (e.g., iPod) and play relaxing music. Save the rock and roll for another time, unless it is FUN rock and roll, with fun messages and not downer lyrics. And, I'm sorry to have to say this, but considering out society, please take along some pepper spray...and get the good stuff!
Lastly, if you are in introvert. Be happy in that. This society tries to make extroverts out of introverts, and I believe that is a mistake, and truly stresses out introverts and causes depression, especially in children. I believe we are at the beginning of a major change in society where the introvert is not considered as a second-class citizen and will begin to understand what the introvert brings to society. Remember...Bill Gates is a introvert. The financial guru Charles Schwab is an introvert.
If you are an extrovert, give the introverts their space to be themselves. We each were brought into this world to be who we are and, whether is is clear to us or not, we are here for a reason. Sometimes that reason is just to be kind to people, and that includes being kind to yourself.
Lastly, and very importantly, get as much sleep as you possibly can. If you lose sleep, you lose 85% of your immune system, and so sleep as much as you can. If you are in a situation that you can take a short 15 minute catnap in the afternoon, do so.
I wish you the very best. I know you'll do fine.
Hi MM, K8 here. i am doing 1 then 1/2, then 1 then 1/2 so i think i will make my next step. i will do 3/4, 1/2, 3/4/, 1/2 etc.. what do u think? thanks in advance...K8