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My husbands mom just passed away less than an hour ago. She was 84 years old, suffered 2 strokes within the last two years and was in a Nursing Home just around the corner from where we live. If your wondering "how can she be on line at this time?" well, it has been coming for the past three weeks as my mother in law made the announcement that she was going to basically commit suicide.
My brother in law, her son, was killed in a motorcycle accident 13 years ago and she never fully recovered from that. What mother would?

Here is my question and concern.
She was a born again christian. Her whole life centered around her religion. She went to church once during the week and of course on Sunday and she also gave a lot of her money to the church as well. She never cursed and scolded anyone who did in front of her, she was always correcting me :$
Her religion says that suicide is a no no. She had no last rights before she passed. Half of the fam says that she was not in her right mind when she made this decision to terminate herself, while the other half says she knew exactly what she was doing, i am on that side of the fence. The staff would find her medication in her bed covers or under her pillow and she told all of us, including the staff that she was not going to eat or drink a thing from here on in and that she wanted to be with her son.
She held sensible conversations with all of us and i even talked her into playing a game of scrabble with me, just about a week ago.
She stopped talking on Monday and lapsed into coma last night, passing away just a little while ago.

I am not a religious person at all, i don't go to church so i really don't know what will become of her soul. She round a bout killed herself, something that her church frowned on. What will happen now?

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Hi BBfeet,
I am really sorry for your loss. It sounds to me through your post, that this is something that is really pressing on you. You dont need to explain what people will think if you are on line. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I am a born again believer in Christ, I was raised in the Catholic church. I dont think that anyone can answer that question for you, the only person who knows the truth is Jesus himself. I have come to learn that His blood covers all of our sins, and that it is no other persons place to judge where her soul will be.
As I understand your question (correct me if I am wrong), you are wanting to know where her soul will be, is that correct? I also see that in your question, perhaps you are just worried about where her soul will be, that you are NOT judging her. I believe her soul will be with her Lord. That is my understanding. I was taught that the only way you could lose your salvation, and your soul would be to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
You know, your best bet might be to have a quiet, private one on one conversation with a pastor, whom you trust, perhaps not at her church, but someone else. There are LOTS of pastors out there whom are WONDERFUL with explaining things. I have a GREAT pastor here in San Diego. I dont know where you are at.
For now, please just remember that The Lord is full of mercy and grace.
Even a pastor though, will not have all the answers, ask The Lord in genuine prayer, like you would speak to another friend, he will give you the peace and the truth of the answer you seek. If you earnestly seek it, he will give you that peace. Many blessings and a heartfelt hug to you. :'( :'( :'(

Hizgrace
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Thanks Hisgrace4all, i appreciate your reply.
Ya know, my sister in law jogged my memory last nite. We were all at a picnic one year at my in laws and their neighbors son was found hanged in his bedroom closet. The cops and ambulance showed up (of course) and everyone came out of their houses (of course) and my mother in law just looked up from her dinner and calmly said "well, we all know where he's going" my niece was little and asked her grandmother, "where is he going grama?" she said, "i hope he likes the heat" we quickly jumped in and changed the whole conversation.

She was pertaining to hell because he committed suicide. I guess it all depends on what your beliefs are. I just know that she is at peace and not hurting or sad anymore. I guess that's as far as i go.
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Here's what I personally believe. First of all, to make a general statement about a particular sin and this will happen to you if you commit this sin, is judging in God's place. I don't think that's wise because God knows every detail about the person and the sin and knows the ultimate motive. It may be proper to judge in many cases, but to judge the conditions of someone's soul should probably be left to God.

My brother committed suicide nearly five years ago. When my sister and I were making calls to friends and family members, we had several people tell us how selfish it was that our brother took his life or that he was going to go to hell. My sister would break out into tears. I would get angry and be completely flabbergasted at their ignorance. I just didn't believe that my brother was going to hell, nor did I believe he was being selfish. In fact, I think he believed he was being completely selfless. My brother was very quiet and private about the fact that he had both paranoid schizophrenia and obsessive compulsive disorder. I don't think those people who made those comments understood that about my brother. If my brother knew what he was doing, I think he thought he was doing all of us a favor. The last month of his life was spent in and out of homes, in and out of his car, running out of medication. He couldn't keep a job, couldn't keep a home, because his disease was progressing and he was getting angrier, more stressed out. He had been kicked out of ALL of our homes--my mother's, my father's, my grandmother's, my sister's, and all of his close friend's. They couldn't handle him, and he couldn't control himself. I think he thought that no one wanted him around or that he was too much of a bother in people's lives and it would be better if he were gone. If he didn't know what he was doing, it was most likely a product of his disease. In either case, I don't see why God would send him to hell. I just don't understand it.

Not only that, I never, before or after, have felt closer to God than the time that my brother passed away. I was so deep in grief because I was so close to my brother, and all I got from friends was platitudes, that I turned to God for peace. I got it, every step of the way. I felt enraptured in His arms and His love and I am eternally grateful for the life lessons I have learned during that time.

My point is this: Don't worry about the condition of her soul. It sounds like she was very deep in grief. If she never got passed the death of her son, her brain chemistry was probably slowly changing over time. Traumatic events in our lives can literally change our brain chemistry and make us chronically depressed, anxious, paranoid, etc. She was also old. Your brain chemistry can change due to age. She may very well have known exactly what she was doing. However, in my personal experience with suicide, the absolute best thing you can do for yourself and for the other loved ones mourning the passing is to take care of yourselves emotionally. Don't argue with the family over this. Comfort each other. Bring out the positive things that have come from knowing her. This is already a stressful, painful part of life and thinking about the shoulda-woulda-coulda's in only going to make things harder. If you want to turn to God, I suggest you do so. He's the one with the answers and the peace.
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I totally respect what you have said and i would never undermine what you believe in but.....i sometimes have to wonder.
I was born and baptized Catholic and attended a catholic elementary/high school. I went to morning mass twice a week and high mass every Sunday, plus all the Religious Holidays. I received the majority of my sacrements and knew the Lords Prayer, Hail Mary and The Apostles Creed in Latin. I sang in the Church choir and attended a 3 day retreat to the St Joseph's Mother House just in case i decided i wanted to become a nun. I knew the Stations of the Cross backwards and wore out my rosary beads a few times. I never went to mass without my scapular, and if i did, i had to make penance, which consisted of making the Stations of the Cross, twice!!
If i said "sh*t" on Saturday nite, i could not receive The Body of Christ on Sunday, and if i did, i had to beat feet to the Confessional early in the morning to tell the priest that i said a bad word the nite before. He would remind me that cursing is a sin, blessed me, and told me i was absolved of my sins, now do your penance and you may go to Communion today. Once again, my penance was The Stations of the Cross. No wonder i knew them so well. If my money envelope was not in the basket on Sunday, i would get hauled into the rectory on Monday morning. Was it my presence that was expected, or the envelope? If i was not in Church on Sunday morning, i had to go one extra day during the week, and don't forget my penance, The Stations of the Cross. I asked the priest once if i could do a bunch of Hail Marys instead, his reply was, of course child, 10 Hail Mary's and twice around the Stations. (i guess for good measure)
I used to get my knuckles cracked all the time, bubble gum stuck on my forhead with my bangs plastered to the gum, pulled by my ears, pulled by my hair and slapped across the face by the nuns. What is that?? And i wasn't even out of elementary school yet.

My first marraige was Luthern. We could not baptize the kids unless we re married in the Catholic Church. We had to go thru pre cana classes just as if we were getting married for the first time. We finally got a pardon and remarried Catholic, enabling us to baptise the baby Catholic. Now we got a divorce. I could not re marry in the Catholic Church yet again because of the Divorce, which is a sin. I looked into the what nots and where too's and found that i had to get a dispensation from the Bishop. I refused and remarried by the Justice of the Peace. The 2 children from that union are not baptised, i am leaving it up to them.

OOOps....i did not realize that this was so long but, what i'm trying to say is that we all have the right to believe in what ever makes us comfortable. The Catholic religion sucked me dry and it was more political than anything. When your little and bad things happen to you, you look for some kind of heavenly assistance, but it just keeps happening. You ask God to help you when your drunken mothers boyfriends are molesting you, he doesn't hear you. You ask for His help while your mom is falling down drunk to the point where the ambulance takes her away and your left home alone in a dark house because the light bill was not paid. You ask for His help while your grandfather is touching you in "not nice" places, again he doesn't hear you.

You suggest that i turn to God if i want to, i did, he turned the other way it seems. I have looked to his guidance a million other times since, no dice. I don't know what i believe in, i don't know if i really believe at all. Your born, you die. You go back into the earth, that's it. Is there a heaven or hell, i don't know. It's all in what we believe.
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Whew BBfeet,
Your post leaves me speechless. My heart cried when I was reading your post also.
Man, I remember my experience with the Catholic church as well, when I was little. Not always super pretty. Lots of craziness went on in Catholic school also, went through alot of HUGE things myself. Some which you described that you went through with the "touching issues" happened but with my sisters, my brothers friend, and a dentist we had. Anyway, my heart really feels for you, and I dont say that lightly. I have sexually assaulted through my teen years also. In a way I felt like I was looking at a mirror image of something I had written. The alcohol part though wasnt my mom, it was my sister.
I am going to PM you when I can catch my breath. I will pray for you though.

Hugs and more Hugs,

Hizgrace :'( :'( :'(
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bbFEET,
I meant to say that I was sexually assaulted through my teen years.....NOT that I sexually assaulted .... sorry


Hizgrace
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Hizgrace4all, I'm sorry, i didn't mean to throw you. And i cought the "sexually assaulted" thing straight away, no need for an adendum as i knew just by reading your posts that you were not a "weirdo".
I am so glad that you can relate, Catholic school was tough for me, but i managed to get thru all of it. I am not trying to insult anyone here as far as religion goes, and this just started out with my mother in laws death, but somehow got all twisted with who believes what and why not.
My husband and i just got into this hugh debate at the dinner table and it ended with him sort of being "ticked" off at me. I am strong willed and i have no problem expressing my feelings, which by the way have no hurtful intent behind them. It is what it is and i can't change the way i feel. I have been asking for tiny little miracles here and there, but...well just nothing.
My husband says that if you have been saved, it's all good from now on. You can sin, if you will, go before God when your time comes, apologize for being naughty, and because your sorry when judgemnent day rolls around, your forgiven and handed your ticket to get into heaven. Hmmm, a sin is a sin and unless you repent for what you have done while your still walking the earth, your done, this is what is drummed into a Catholic's head. If you commit a sin and don't confess, you go straight to hell.
Which brings it right back to the suicide thing with her. Her religion says suicide is a sin and is not acceptable. I beleive she was in her right mind when she announced to the family that she has decided to end it all. She reminded us that she wants no heroic measures, and also reminds us that it is stated in her will and also her DNR which was incorporated 30 years ago. She had enough where with all to stash her meds under her pillow and refused them in food.
She even made sure that her only granddaughter was insured to be given her Hummell collection, which she reinterated just the other day.
I was also told that those that are Saved don't need Last Rights, all is forgiven automatically, like it never happened.
Sheesh, i don't get it at all.
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Hi BBfeet,
No need to apologize. I was at work AN ABSOLUTE ZOO, and I really wanted to spend some really good "thought time" before I relayed another message. Catholic school was tough for me too. I can relate to where you are coming from. You know, it is VERY refreshing to be able to send messages to someone who understands the Catholic "thing", and someone who has a little confusion with understanding relationship with the Lord.
You know, it never ceases to amaze me when I post, it seems as though I am posting at "The Lords time". It seems as though someone just pops up and happens to be facing very similar things as I am. I was going through the section of "unanswered posts" and found yours. I wanted to tell you, wether you see it or not, you seem to me to be a VERY strong woman. I know as women, sometimes it is hard to be or feel strong. I also wanted to tell you, I really feel that you WILL INDEED overcome these issues.
There are a few things, if you wouldnt mind, that I would like to share with you, things that I learned when I left the Catholic church. I found it EXTREMELY hard to understand and to believe, because they were not the things that I had been taught in Catholic church.
Not dont get me wrong, I hold no contempt toward the Catholic church, ok?
I used to go to confession, and think..."oh man, I'm gonna get it when I go in there, and I dont know HOW MANY hail Mary's or otherwise that I am going to have to recite THIS time". Ever feel that way?
Anyway, one of thing that I was taught was that we not supposed to confess our sins to a priest, we are to come to Jesus ANY TIME and confess our sins to Him. Of course I believe He wants us to converse with Him at any time, and the closer we draw to Him, the closer He gets to us andthe more we understand. I was taught the The Lord is a "gentleman" and doesnt force Himself on us.
The reason for the not confessing to a priest was explained to me like this:
Before and somewhat during Jesus time on earth, people used to go and offer sacrifices to the Lord, and they would go to the one priest to confess. That one priest was the ONLY one who could go into the Holy of Holies there was a curtain that seperated the others from the Holy of Holies, no others were allowed in. They would usually sacrifice an umblemished Lamb. That is one of the reasons they call Jesus The Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. Jesus said that "No one could come to The Father EXCEPT through Me" When He died on the cross, when you read it, it states that curtain was torn in two (to the Holy of Holies). I have noticed alot of symbolism in the Bible, if not read closely, people can miss alot of things.
Anyway, that curtain was torn, I believe indicating that we no longer have a need to confess to a priest. Our priest is Jesus.
When I went through alot of things, sexually and otherwise, I was VERY bitter and angry and unforgiving. It was making me depressed and killing me. It was one of the hardest things I had to do to forgive others whom had hurt me. But what I didnt realize was that it wasnt fazing them anymore, I was just holding on. Once I forgave them, I felt like a new person. Now dont get me wrong, I still get angry at times and frustrated when I think back, but I know I have forgiven as best I can.
I still have SOOOOO much growing to do. I wanted to keep a journal (when I could) to reming myself of the big and small things that He has brought me through, because with moving SOOO much and new things, sometimes it is hard to remember those good things and when I am depressed and anxious I need to remind myself.
When you mentioned your husband being "ticked off" at you, I giggled thinking of all the times my hubby and I have done just that. I too am pretty strong willed, no problem expressing my feelings either. I just suffer from the "huge foot in mouth before thinking" syndrome.
I believe your hubby is correct when you mentioned he said when you are saved, you are saved. There are many scriptures that states nothing or noone can "snatch" you from His hands. Yes, if you confess to Him, he will forgive your sins, but it doesnt mean that we just go on our merry way, we will still face the consequences of our choices
I dont want to sound like I am preaching to you, I always try to express things in the best way, sometimes I dont do very well.
Anyway, I also didnt email for very long, because I had lots on my mind. We are in San Diego and looking at short selling our house. We probably might stand to lose about 180,000. I want to be home with my boys, especially with their dad deploying.
I had a terrible accident in 07' and I had 6 hours of reconstructive surgery on my foot 11 screws, a plate and a bone graft. Well, I am going to have surgery on the 17 of August to do some reconstruction of my ankle. Anyway, let me know how you are doing, and what you thought of what I posted. Sorry so long winded.

Blessings,
Hizgrace :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
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Hi BBfeet,
Just wanted to tell you, I was in church this morning at San Diego Community Bible Church, and my pastors sermon was AWESOME.... it was a sermon on just about EVERYTHING that we have been posting about. I know you said you werent really religious, but if you get a chance, you can hear the sermon if you go to their site on the internet.
It was really powerful this morning, and about had me in tears. There are alot of things that you posted about that I too question and wonder about, and I really feel the Lord wanted to answer some of those questions through my pastor this morning. It really blew me away. How are you feeling?
I wanted to let you know, it has been such a blessing to post to you on this site. I hadn't posted in quite some time, and it just never ceases to amaze how "timely" things are. I was really blessed and felt a sigh of relief when I read your post, as some of the things that you posted I also had weighing heavily on my heart. It made me realize there were some areas of my life (always will be) where there were people that I needed to forgive still.
Thank you for being such a blessing. Please dont be a stranger, feel free to post me anytime you need to, ok?

Blessings to you and your family,
Hizgrace
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