Decided to Have My Son Circumcised at 13

My late ex-wife wanted to have the first boy circumcised. I wouldn't agree, and she didn't pursue it. Some time before the second one was born, she said my penis was the best she had experienced, and she lost her virginity long before we met, so there was no discussion--the second one was left intact also. Neither has ever complained about his foreskin. So I think girls just need be educated. They should be told how many nerve endings are lost duuring circumcision.

Hi injoynlife:

The poor circed guys need to grieve their loss. Frequently we see them denying that they have lost anything. This view is no longer reasonable because of research.

We also see the adamant father syndrome in which a circumcised father adamantly insists that his son be circumcised "to look like him". In reality , the circumcised father does not want a foreskin in the house to remind him of what he has lost. Also, the presence of healthy foreskin on his son, belies the claim that a circumcision is necessary for health.

I am in full agreement with you. My experience confirms the sexual pleasure from the foreskin.

I am not sure about the missing posts.

So how many nerve endings are lost, what kind, and do they matter? Take the role of genital corpuscles into account, and where they are found (clue: not in the foreskin). Also, how does your estimate of the number of nerve endings compare to other areas of the body? Like the feet? This is important as simply asserting that the foreskin contains nerve endings tells us nothing without something to compare it with. Please cite me peer-reviewed research, based on actual experimental measurements, rather than doing what most circumcision opponents do and simply parroting the misleading claims they find on anti-circ websites, and urban myths like the 20,000 figure that gets bandied about without a jot of evidence to support it. If you do your homework properly you will be shocked when you find out just how much of what the anti-circs say is bullsh!t. (Clue: I mentioned feet for a reason).

What research? For every study (often discredited, by the way) the anti-circs cite, there are others that find no difference, and others that find an improvement. A meta-analysis has just been released of the best research so far and has found that circumcision makes no difference to male sexual function: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23749001
Any notion that circumcised guys grieve their "loss" or are in denial is destroyed by those, like me, circ'd as adults and glad of it. I have NEVER grieved the loss of my foreskin. Nor do the thousands of men circ'd as part of the anti-HIV trials in Africa, 98-99 % of whom express satisfaction with their sex lives and the 64% of them who found that sensitivity actually IMPROVED after circumcision. See:

Kigozi, et al. (2008) The effect of male circumcision on sexual satisfaction and function, results from a randomized trial of male circumcision for human immunodeficiency virus prevention, Rakai, Uganda. BJU Int., 101, 65-70.

Krieger et al. (2008) Adult male circumcision: Effects on sexual function and sexual satisfaction in Kisumu, Kenya. J Sex Med., 5, 2610-2622.

These are both available on-line. Do not be fooled by the propaganda of the anti-circs. Go straight to PubMed and search out the studies anti-circs don't tell you about. And when anti-circs cite a "study" in their favour, look up subsequent issues of the journal to find critiques that expose flaws in the original paper. Anti-circs cherry-pick the papers that suit them (often their own biased efforts), and almost NEVER acknowledge the devastating critiques of those same papers.

Roland, you are peddling misinformation calculated to make circumcised males feel miserable about their bodies. That is mean. And it is how the anti-circ movement propagates itself. It fills circ’d males with anxiety and thus gains angry new recruits to the movement. They then go forth and spread the lies to others, who become angry, and so forth. It is all very damaging to circ’d guys, and it is all bullsh!t.

To take each of your points in turn:
Phimosis – conservative treatments involve stretching and steroid creams. But why you don’t you acknowledge that, for up to a third of men (exact figures vary), the phimosis is too severe and circ is the only option? And for those who do manage to stretch their skins, recurrence is common, and some still end up under the scalpel. Phimosis is a serious condition that can lead to all sorts of unpleasant complications, and it is a risk factor for cancer. Your claim that is normally painless is laughable. Wait until it leads to tears, paraphimosis, infection, fusion of foreskin to glans, cancer …

“its huge number of pleasure nerve sensors”. Ok, let’s see just how much you actually know. What are the key pleasure sensors in the penis called, and where are they found? (Clue: they’re not the ones anti-circs usually go on about). How many are in the foreskin? (Clue: you’re looking for a single digit on the number part of your keyboard, circular in shape). How does the foreskin compare with other glabrous skin (like the feet) with respect to nerve density and size? (Clue: poorly). And how do uncut men rank their foreskins when asked to rank different areas of the penis according to sexual sensation? (Clue: you won’t like the answer). And back up whatever you say with experimental evidence published in peer-reviewed medical journals please. Not urban myths copied uncritically from anti-circ websites. For example if you try the “20,000” number I’ll challenge you to prove it (should be fun as it is an urban myth). Be warned, I have peer-reviewed studies at the ready for all these points, and not one of them is favourable to the anti-circ cause (which perhaps explains why they are rarely mentioned on anti-circ websites).

It is sad that you seem only to use the internet for your info. Try going further and actually reading the primary sources in the medical literature (many of which are available off the internet). This is what I do. PubMed is a good place to start, though for pre-internet papers you’ll have to go to your local library (I know it can be a little awkward ordering papers on this topic from the librarian, just be brave, I find their own embarrassment slightly amusing).

Women generally prefer the circumcised member? Not according to this study:
Williamson ML, Williamson PS. Women's preferences for penile circumcision in sexual partners. J Sex Educ Ther. 1988; 14: 8.
Or others I could cite.

Looking forward to your response. I like a good laugh.

Circumcised penis loses sensitivity

No it doesn't. Do your homework and get your facts right. Start with the references I cite in my recent posts. They are available on-line. Just Google their titles.

Ok Steve, time will give me the reason

And of course you wouldn't have had him circumcised had he said he didn't want it done.

Hi Steve:

We now know that many, perhaps most, circumcised men have an acute need to deny that they have been harmed by circumcision or that they have lost anything, even though the losses and permanent injury are well documented in the medical literature.

It is clear from your post that you are in denial of reality. We need go no farther in discussing your absurd and preposterous claims.

Denial of reality is why the medical literature regarding circumcision is so polemical. The HIV RCTs are a case in point. They are entirely fraudulent and were produced by circumcised men to justify their personal loss of erogenous sensation.

Roland23: Is this the best you can do? How pathetic! Well at least I had a laugh at YOUR denialism. And that is all it is. No attempt to engage with any of the evidence I cite. Just denialism - and projection. Projecting your denialism onto circumcised guys claiming it is they who are in denial! Try actually looking at the studies I cite. The African ones are of guys circ'd as adults, like me. They know what a foreskin is like, and what its absence is like, as I do. And they are practically all HAPPY with it. You just cannot bring yourself to accept the fact that when circ'd guys say they like being circ'd, they really do! And this is backed up by the best available evidence. Look at the recent meta-analysis by Tian et al. The ten best studies taken in aggregate confirm that circ has no adverse effect of male sexual function. Got used to it. I have the evidence on my side. I win. Period.
And to deny the effectiveness of circ again HIV is stupid and irresponsible. It is now proven to the satisfaction of the WHO, CDC, UNAIDS and all other professional bodies dealing with this ghastly epidemic. And before you try to bullsh!t me with any of the intactivist counterarguments see this paper:

Wamai, R.G., Morris, B.J., Waskett, J.H., Green, E.C., Banerjee, J., Bailey, R.C., Klausner, J.D., Sokal, D.C. & Hankins, C.A. (2012) Criticisms of African trials fail to withstand scrutiny: Male circumcision does prevent HIV infection. J Law Med., 20(1), 93-123.

They eviscerate the barrel-scraping, misrepresenting and cherry-picking arguments circumcision opponents use as they desperately try to condemn African men to death on the altar of "genital integrity".
Try addressing the evidence, instead of projecting your denialism onto your critics. I am NOT in denial, you are.

Apologies for two typos in my last post:
"Got used to it" should read "Get used to it"
"again" should read "against"

although im circumcised i dont believe in parents having you cut.my mother had me circumcised at 10yrs of age.she had it all done i.e. frenum cut out and uretha split to ridge .

Nature Really Likes Male CircumcisionsWay down under in Melbourne, Australia is the story of a tightly done male adult circumcision of the ultimate kind. You'll never believe the story … or will you?Around 17 years ago, I became aware that circumcision was of interest to me. How to go about it ? What an embarrassment, how to sneak into a Doctor cost etc. I became more and more frustrated, as I knew I wanted it done. Australia is a hot climate too and I wanted a slick model penis, not a sock, at half mast. I had learnt from school that I was bisexual, I would use the odd opportunity to check out and occasionally talk another classmate into pulling down his pants and letting me give him oral sex. Both circumcised and uncircumcised, although I didn’t know what circumcision was then, I was only ten ! We start pretty early in Australia !Anyway back to circumcision. I became more and more, frustrated and there didn’t seem to be a way of resolving the issue. Then I had a bereavement in the family. If I couldn’t solve this simple problem… It was a question of honor.So what I did may surprise many. I am an everyday kind of bloke, a family now, job and the rest of it. So don’t be too shocked. Where there is a will there is a way.I had been researching on the net at the time and I was reading and seeing pics of tribal and African circumcisions. There are great stories of the Tuli in the Philippines and also teens putting their penis on a log with a piece of twine and the elder slicing off the foreskin, high and tight, leaving a terrific red patched scar.I decided after much viewing and research that this is what I wanted. I was a bit far from the Philippines and Africa, so this is what happened.One long weekend when there was a Public holiday, I decided to have a go myself. This is not for the faint hearted.On the Friday night, I did the usual, a few beers then came home. I opened a bottle of white wine and proceeded to watch an x-rated video. Of course with a long ring barked penis or two. After a while I was ready. A bit of popper amyl and I was more or less ready to have a go. At circumcision.I knew the skin would be sensitive, so I had purchased from an adult store, delay spray. This I think had lidocaine like when you get Suntan mozzie burns cream from the supermarket only stronger. I applied it to my foreskin until the end of my penis felt number, than usual. Another drink and some poppers, a look at the tightly taut scarred cocks on the TV screen and it was time. Time to join the rest of my male brothers on the planet with a permanently forever nude glans and a stripped pointed helmety penis. Intention purple glans to always lead the way, from that night on or else.I sized and drew a line working out where to cut and checked this out numerous times. Another drink, more amyl and an inspection of the video playing and I was ready.I took a very sharp pair a medium size sewing scissors and sat down. Carefully lining them up, I very slowly, and I mean really slowly, put them through the line on the foreskin I had drawn. I had already pulled the foreskin as hard as I ever could in front of my glans.Slowly but surely I got the job done. Everything dropped back behind my glans and my foreskin lay on a tissue. A dream come true. I couldn’t believe my absolute relief and satisfaction.All this time later nearly two decades on, I am still happy. A couple a days later, I consulted a friendly doctor and some stitches were added on the quiet to complete the job.Result is I have a very tightly circumcised penis, with absolutely no frenulum or foreskin.The absolute tightest male circumcision possible, for myself and any partner I should choose, whether it be female or male. Amazingly there is no two tone scar and the circumcision join is one color and height. No different levels of skin height or misalignment.Nature really does like circumcisions.

Kim & Pang's amateurish "study" was discredited in a subsequent issue of the same journal. Why do you people keep dredging up shoddy, debunked "studies"?