Back in 1994 I had my spine crushed, L-3--S-1, I have since had 5 back surgeries. I am taking 60mg of oxycontin and 30mg percocet daily. It's not working. My pain level according to that f---ing Wong chart is a 9+ every day. I need some advice.
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I see that you could get your tolerance up to taking that much pain medication. It becomes very easy to do and the more you take, the more you need because that certain amount doesn't work anymore. I understand chronic pain. It sux and I will live with it for the rest of my life as well. However, you might wanna start talking to the doctor about giving you a slow release pain med. and then have the oxycodone for breakthrough pain. This way you wouldn't have to take as much.
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Take your anger somewhere else
You shouldn't target your anger at people on this forum that you don't know by calling them "pill heads". They are not the ones stopping your doctor from prescribing you pain pills it is the DRUG WAR.
You shouldn't target your anger at people on this forum that you don't know by calling them "pill heads". They are not the ones stopping your doctor from prescribing you pain pills it is the DRUG WAR.
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Wow such anger! Maybe if you hadnt put up warning signs to the doctor that you are really into your pills you wouldnt be having this problem. Sure you might have had a surgery now but doctors are not dumb when it comes to pain pill people. There are just too many people that legally are getting high. If you are in that much pain answer this question, how many times have you been to the ER in the past year? If it is more than two in a six moth period for the same problem then the ER doctors know a pain pill seeker when they see them.
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There is NO way ANY doctor would write a prescription for Percocet 10 or Endocet in the manner of taking 24 pills a day. I have been in pain since I was 12 years old due to back problems, Scheuermann's disease, degenerated discs all the up to my neck resulting in Scheuermanns kyphosis (I had to have fusion done). Also I played sports (as best I could) throughout high school. They gave me Endocet, which is just Oxycodone 10/325 @ 4 - 6 pills a day, MAX. You are saying you took 4 times that much, plus Morphine and for the pain you are in and the damage you are describing? It makes no sense and your doctor needs to have his license revoked. I know someone who is a Vietnam Vet. who has a Dilaudid pump inside of him that constantly pumps it into his system (He was exposed to agent orange and also has a rod running from his hip to his ankle and can't bend his leg, at all.. not to mention being shot in the back two times and suffering spinal cord damage, and that are just the details I know as he doesn't talk about his experience over there much.) I have pain everyday now and I get 90 Endocet a month, of which I may take 30 - 40 of and bring what's left over to my doctor.. I was actually the 462nd person in my state to even be diagnosed with what I have which went undiagnosed until I went to Scottish Rite's childrens hospital and Emory in Atlanta, GA.
You are killing your liver and will have permanent damage, you should switch over to oxycodone w/ NO tylenol in it... I have tried it and it does work, at least then you will salvage what is left of your liver... and saying you don't get high from taking 24 Oxycodone tablets a day PLUS morphine is either A) Denial B) Inability of recognize Euphoria or C) 1 in a 1,000,000,000 chance of being able to tolerate that and never felt "high" not once not to mention the fact that if you are taking this amount, once you stop, you will need rehab for probably a year or more.
Not to put you down but to just give you some info. from someone who has experienced pain for almost three decades.... you are headed down a road that I have been down due to abuse and at the end of that road is something that you do not want to find. There are ways of dealing with severe pain, but what you are doing is not one of them, you are not dealing with anything and are not only taking years off of your life but also making your future one of an "undiagnosed addict" which just means that unless you have ever been addicted to something (and you are, you just might not know it) you are in for a rude awakening. Your body will not be able to take this much damage for many years, you will go into renal failure, your liver will be damaged and unable to filter toxins and basically, you will could possibly die of an overdose. Just because your tolerance to what you "say" you are taking may exist doesn't mean your body is handling it.
If everything you said is true though, seek another doctor, no matter the cost, keep seeking for an answer, anything than what you are doing now. I speak from experience, not opinions. Please. Seek HELP.
You are killing your liver and will have permanent damage, you should switch over to oxycodone w/ NO tylenol in it... I have tried it and it does work, at least then you will salvage what is left of your liver... and saying you don't get high from taking 24 Oxycodone tablets a day PLUS morphine is either A) Denial B) Inability of recognize Euphoria or C) 1 in a 1,000,000,000 chance of being able to tolerate that and never felt "high" not once not to mention the fact that if you are taking this amount, once you stop, you will need rehab for probably a year or more.
Not to put you down but to just give you some info. from someone who has experienced pain for almost three decades.... you are headed down a road that I have been down due to abuse and at the end of that road is something that you do not want to find. There are ways of dealing with severe pain, but what you are doing is not one of them, you are not dealing with anything and are not only taking years off of your life but also making your future one of an "undiagnosed addict" which just means that unless you have ever been addicted to something (and you are, you just might not know it) you are in for a rude awakening. Your body will not be able to take this much damage for many years, you will go into renal failure, your liver will be damaged and unable to filter toxins and basically, you will could possibly die of an overdose. Just because your tolerance to what you "say" you are taking may exist doesn't mean your body is handling it.
If everything you said is true though, seek another doctor, no matter the cost, keep seeking for an answer, anything than what you are doing now. I speak from experience, not opinions. Please. Seek HELP.
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Percocet is a brand-name drug, while Endocet is a lower-priced generic equivalent. They are both distributed by the same manufacturer (Endo Pharmaceuticals), and they both have the same active ingredients - oxycodone hydrochloride (HCL) and acetaminophen United States Pharmacopeia (USP) (Tylenol). The only difference is the inactive ingredients used to manufacture the pills, such as cornstarch, silicone dioxide, food colors, gelatin, etc.
When the drug patent ran out for brand-name Percocet, Endo began distributing Endocet under the company name "Endo Generic Products" to compete in the generic market along with other pharmaceutical companies such as Watson, Mylan, Mallinkrt and others. Although Endocet is a generic drug, the name "Endocet" is a registered trademark owned by Endo Pharmaceuticals, so it cannot be used by any other manufacturer.
Although some individuals on this forum have claimed that certain "brands" of oxcycodone APAP seem to work better than others, I have used oxycodone/acetominophen from various manufacturers over the past two years with no appreciable difference in the pain relief they provide. That said, it should be noted that in time, oxycodone can lose its effectiveness in some individuals as their bodies start building up an immunity to the drug. If this occurs, dosage adjustments may be required to provide adequate pain relief.
Sometimes, other medications that have been introduced since a patient originally began taking oxycodone can also be responsible for its loss of effectiveness. If you are not getting the same relief from Endocet as with, for example, Roxicet, you should discuss this with your physician as an adjustment in the strength of the oxycodone may be needed or changes in your other medications may be indicated.
When the drug patent ran out for brand-name Percocet, Endo began distributing Endocet under the company name "Endo Generic Products" to compete in the generic market along with other pharmaceutical companies such as Watson, Mylan, Mallinkrt and others. Although Endocet is a generic drug, the name "Endocet" is a registered trademark owned by Endo Pharmaceuticals, so it cannot be used by any other manufacturer.
Although some individuals on this forum have claimed that certain "brands" of oxcycodone APAP seem to work better than others, I have used oxycodone/acetominophen from various manufacturers over the past two years with no appreciable difference in the pain relief they provide. That said, it should be noted that in time, oxycodone can lose its effectiveness in some individuals as their bodies start building up an immunity to the drug. If this occurs, dosage adjustments may be required to provide adequate pain relief.
Sometimes, other medications that have been introduced since a patient originally began taking oxycodone can also be responsible for its loss of effectiveness. If you are not getting the same relief from Endocet as with, for example, Roxicet, you should discuss this with your physician as an adjustment in the strength of the oxycodone may be needed or changes in your other medications may be indicated.
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I am 29 y/o female. 3 weeks ago I had a complete and full achilles ruputre and had to have emergency surgery. The first 3-4 days post-op were the worst for pain. I consider myself to have a high threshold for pain and do not like taking drugs into my body. I had no alternative, I was in so much pain after the surgery, I was begging for the nurses to do something. It felt like a dull and rusty saw was being dragged as hard as possible against my heel. They tried everything - morphine, hydramorpine, tramacet, percocet, dillauded (both oral and injection). The only thing that really seemed to work were the breakthrough injections of dillauded. Anyhow, after I was released from hospital, I was prescribed oxycodine (percocet) and was dosing about 10 per day for the pain for about 20 days post-op. Fearing my body was becoming dependant (and wanting to live narcotic free), I stopped taking them. I had mild reactions of stomach cramps and diarreah. Feeling nauseatied without them, I have lowered my dose to 4-5 per day and am working with my doctor on a reduction plan to minimize any negative side-effects of coming off them after having been on them for over 3 weeks. Good luck to you all and be careful when taking these kinds of drugs. I want to get off them now, but my body appears to be a little bit dependent so it is reacting negatively. I should have been more careful, but I was too concerned with eliminating all pain, rather than allieviating some pain. Sometimes pain in life is good for you.
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No difference between the two meds...at all. Just Endocet is the generic and thus cheaper.
I suffer from severe bouts of Chron's disease (had the surgery, trying to avoid it again) and thus every now and then need pain meds.
If you suffer from severe pain you may wish to talk to your doctor about Dilaudid, however, only take that short term (I'm allergic to Morphine so they give me that at the hospital every time I'm discharged). I currently have endocet, but only take when the pain is too much to handle.
Pain is a normal part of aging (I'm 43 and a single mom of a very active pre teen). We can't go through life without some owies, and groans. I recommend ONLY taking the pain meds when you've endured a bit....build up your threshold. I myself have developed a very high pain tolerance, and despite the Chron's and my current hassle with shingles, lead a very active life and only take my pain meds before bed to help me sleep, and only if the pain is too much for me to go to sleep.
Good luck to everyone, but for your own sakes, try to endure a little more each day and you'll find maybe it bothers you less. Heavy reliance on pain meds helps no one. Even if you're not becoming addicted (which you can so easily without even realizing), you may be killing your liver.
I suffer from severe bouts of Chron's disease (had the surgery, trying to avoid it again) and thus every now and then need pain meds.
If you suffer from severe pain you may wish to talk to your doctor about Dilaudid, however, only take that short term (I'm allergic to Morphine so they give me that at the hospital every time I'm discharged). I currently have endocet, but only take when the pain is too much to handle.
Pain is a normal part of aging (I'm 43 and a single mom of a very active pre teen). We can't go through life without some owies, and groans. I recommend ONLY taking the pain meds when you've endured a bit....build up your threshold. I myself have developed a very high pain tolerance, and despite the Chron's and my current hassle with shingles, lead a very active life and only take my pain meds before bed to help me sleep, and only if the pain is too much for me to go to sleep.
Good luck to everyone, but for your own sakes, try to endure a little more each day and you'll find maybe it bothers you less. Heavy reliance on pain meds helps no one. Even if you're not becoming addicted (which you can so easily without even realizing), you may be killing your liver.
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Hi Rowdy;
I also take endocet and oxycontin for pain. I don't ever take it to get high but if I were to go without my body would let me know that it requires it. I know that if I were to get off these pills it would cause withdrawls, not mentally but physically. I hope someday to be pain free and medicinally free, but it does worry me. My memory is pretty poor and things that I use to do don't appeal to me as if I have lost all ambition to be a functional woman. Maybe chatting with people that have similar things going on in their lives will help with that ambition I was talking about will come back somewhat. Well I hope that you and all the people that will read this will be able to find the right cure for them.
PM :-)
I also take endocet and oxycontin for pain. I don't ever take it to get high but if I were to go without my body would let me know that it requires it. I know that if I were to get off these pills it would cause withdrawls, not mentally but physically. I hope someday to be pain free and medicinally free, but it does worry me. My memory is pretty poor and things that I use to do don't appeal to me as if I have lost all ambition to be a functional woman. Maybe chatting with people that have similar things going on in their lives will help with that ambition I was talking about will come back somewhat. Well I hope that you and all the people that will read this will be able to find the right cure for them.
PM :-)
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1.) There IS actually a difference between name-brand and generics, although it's a minute one. According to FDA regulations, generics are allowed to have up to a +/-10% difference in active ingredients, as compared to the name-brand counterpart. They are also allowed to have up to a +/-20% difference in clinical effectiveness (which means two single pills can vary by a whopping 40% in effectiveness!). But those are the extreme "limits," meaning most generics are much closer to the actual name-brand pills. It's not really the active ingredient amounts that make the difference anyway, it's the clinical effectiveness variation that is noticeable to some people. It's based primarily on the pharmacokinetics (bioavailability/absorption) due to the different inactive ingredients, such as binders and emulsifiers, that cause the pill to break apart and/or be absorbed more slowly (or less effectively). You can see this effect for yourself: fill a glass with warm tap water, then drop a name-brand Vicodin (Watson brand) into it and watch how quickly the pill falls apart. It disintegrates very rapidly, because it is made to be an instant release formulation and the binders were chosen accordingly. Next, drop a generic Hydro/APAP formulation into a new glass of warm water; from my own testing, none of the generics dissolved as quickly as the Vicodin. This phenomenon would explain why some people claim that generics are weaker than name-brand, because the slower absorption would result in lower immediate hydrocodone blood plasma levels.
2.) Someone mentioned this: "*10mg oxycodone HCI is equivalent to 8.9637 mg of oxycodone. Bottom line, PERCOCET is a full 10mg of oxycodone." Simply put, this is NONSENSE. There are no pharmaceuticals in existence that use oxycodone freebase. They ALWAYS use oxycodone hcl. Your body cannot absorb freebase molecules, therefore, they must always be converted to water soluble salts (commonly hydrochloride, a.k.a. hcl) first. So anytime you see any type of pill containing "10mg oxycodone," it will in fact contain 10mg oxycodone hcl, which equates to 8.9637mg oxycodone. So it means nothing. Just ignore it whenever you see something like that, as it will only confuse you. All you need to know is: 10mg oxycodone = 10mg oxycodone hcl.
3.) The high levels of narcotics some of you are taking is meaningless. Tolerance is a known and expected reality of opiates, hence why strong mixtures exist such as Fentanyl, 160mg oxycodone pills, 40mg oxymorphone pills, 32mg hydromorphone pills, etc. Nobody here is criticizing that, please just take as much opiate as you need to be happy and pain free. However, what we ARE criticizing is the level of Tylenol you are ingesting. After all, a Percocet is basically just a Tylenol with a tiny speck of oxycodone added. For long-term daily use, you should NOT be exceeding 10 of ANY pill that contains 325mg APAP. That's a daily maximum of 3 grams APAP. Any more and you risk severe liver damage. A federal advisory panel recently voted to reduce the maximum daily limit from the 4 gram ceiling of the past, because nearly 50,000 people in the U.S. are hospitalized every year from taking too much. APAP is a hepatoxin, meaning it's poison to your liver, so even small amounts of it will cause damage. However, the damage usually goes unnoticed, because your liver has a miraculous ability to repair itself, so the short-term APAP damage is usually repaired once you stop taking the APAP. But if you're taking it for prolonged periods of time, your liver never has time to repair the damage, and eventually it will shut down completely, and you'll be stuck with the grim options of either finding a transplant or dying. DO NOT TAKE MORE THAN 10 PERCOCET PER DAY. Taking 20+ daily, I'm sad to say, will almost certainly lead to acute liver failure, and you'll be finding yourself in the E.R. sooner rather than later. That amount of APAP is literally not doing anything beneficial anyway, so any doctor who prescribes that much is simply putting your health at risk because he doesn't want to risk the DEA hassle of prescribing you something stronger. APAP mixtures are for people with mild pain, not chronic/severe pain. APAP is not even an anti-inflammatory, it's an anti-pyretic (fever reducer)! You poor souls ingesting 10+ Percocets daily should absolutely, without a doubt, be on something stronger (such as Oxycontin or Roxicodone).
I should also add that acetaminophen has a rather long half-life, taking about 4 days to fully metabolize and expel from your body after ingestion. You should definitely not drink ANY alcohol at all while taking acetaminophen, as this combination is what leads to most of the ~500 annual APAP-related deaths in this country. And it's estimated that APAP plays a role in many times more deaths annually, only it's harder to link the APAP since people don't realize it stays in their system for so long, and they think it's ok to drink the next night after taking some. Then their deaths are simply noted as being alcohol-related and the APAP isn't recognized. So please be SAFE, and don't drink at all when taking APAP (and preferably you shouldn't drink for at least 2 days afterward)!
2.) Someone mentioned this: "*10mg oxycodone HCI is equivalent to 8.9637 mg of oxycodone. Bottom line, PERCOCET is a full 10mg of oxycodone." Simply put, this is NONSENSE. There are no pharmaceuticals in existence that use oxycodone freebase. They ALWAYS use oxycodone hcl. Your body cannot absorb freebase molecules, therefore, they must always be converted to water soluble salts (commonly hydrochloride, a.k.a. hcl) first. So anytime you see any type of pill containing "10mg oxycodone," it will in fact contain 10mg oxycodone hcl, which equates to 8.9637mg oxycodone. So it means nothing. Just ignore it whenever you see something like that, as it will only confuse you. All you need to know is: 10mg oxycodone = 10mg oxycodone hcl.
3.) The high levels of narcotics some of you are taking is meaningless. Tolerance is a known and expected reality of opiates, hence why strong mixtures exist such as Fentanyl, 160mg oxycodone pills, 40mg oxymorphone pills, 32mg hydromorphone pills, etc. Nobody here is criticizing that, please just take as much opiate as you need to be happy and pain free. However, what we ARE criticizing is the level of Tylenol you are ingesting. After all, a Percocet is basically just a Tylenol with a tiny speck of oxycodone added. For long-term daily use, you should NOT be exceeding 10 of ANY pill that contains 325mg APAP. That's a daily maximum of 3 grams APAP. Any more and you risk severe liver damage. A federal advisory panel recently voted to reduce the maximum daily limit from the 4 gram ceiling of the past, because nearly 50,000 people in the U.S. are hospitalized every year from taking too much. APAP is a hepatoxin, meaning it's poison to your liver, so even small amounts of it will cause damage. However, the damage usually goes unnoticed, because your liver has a miraculous ability to repair itself, so the short-term APAP damage is usually repaired once you stop taking the APAP. But if you're taking it for prolonged periods of time, your liver never has time to repair the damage, and eventually it will shut down completely, and you'll be stuck with the grim options of either finding a transplant or dying. DO NOT TAKE MORE THAN 10 PERCOCET PER DAY. Taking 20+ daily, I'm sad to say, will almost certainly lead to acute liver failure, and you'll be finding yourself in the E.R. sooner rather than later. That amount of APAP is literally not doing anything beneficial anyway, so any doctor who prescribes that much is simply putting your health at risk because he doesn't want to risk the DEA hassle of prescribing you something stronger. APAP mixtures are for people with mild pain, not chronic/severe pain. APAP is not even an anti-inflammatory, it's an anti-pyretic (fever reducer)! You poor souls ingesting 10+ Percocets daily should absolutely, without a doubt, be on something stronger (such as Oxycontin or Roxicodone).
I should also add that acetaminophen has a rather long half-life, taking about 4 days to fully metabolize and expel from your body after ingestion. You should definitely not drink ANY alcohol at all while taking acetaminophen, as this combination is what leads to most of the ~500 annual APAP-related deaths in this country. And it's estimated that APAP plays a role in many times more deaths annually, only it's harder to link the APAP since people don't realize it stays in their system for so long, and they think it's ok to drink the next night after taking some. Then their deaths are simply noted as being alcohol-related and the APAP isn't recognized. So please be SAFE, and don't drink at all when taking APAP (and preferably you shouldn't drink for at least 2 days afterward)!
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i think you are delusional if you genuinely believe that you are not addicted to opiates. try and stop taking them and see what happens. withdrawal is serious stuff. i have first hand experience. i was on oxycodone and oxycontin for 14 years after having 5 back surgeries. the dosage increased over the years but i ended up at oxycodone 10mg in 325mg of acetaminophine 4Xa day and oxycontin 40mg at bedtime. for the first 3 surgeries i was younger (in my 20s) and did very well, not needing any pain meds after the recovery time. i also had 3 more children inbetween the 3rd and 4th surgeries. but after falling and fracturing a rib while i was 9 months pregnant with my last child (I have 4, one prior to any surgery) , i started taking percocet and continued for the next 14 years, gradually increasing to my ending dosage of Percecot 10/325mg 4x a day and oxycontin 40mg at bedtime. i started to abuse my pain meds and ended up in detox and then 4 weeks in a rehab. trying to wean myself didnt work and the withdrawal was nasty. in detox i was withdrawn with the help of a 3 day stint of siboxin. i attend daily NA meetings and go to counseling. it is still difficult. i had an SI joint injection which helped the pain. i struggle on a daily basis, but i am not allowed to work in the nursing profession while on the pain meds, so i have to get off and stay off of them. which i am doing. however, based upon your own admission, you are taking at least 12 percocet 10mg tabs daily. you state you are "NOT ADDICTED" and "NEVER WILL BE". I beg to differ. you are addicted. opiates taken at that level for 4 years will cause addiction. just try and stop. you will see. you are in denial and justifying your drug use. i know because i did the same thing. just see what happens one day when you run out of them! the sweating, the diarrhea, pacing, the bargaining in your mind, the absolute need to get more no matter what! i didnt want to stop but i needed to and thank God i did. i wish something would be discovered for pain that was not harmful, not addictive, and actually relieved pain. i keep dreaming....
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to rowdie,
sorry for your pain, but i agree with the others. There is no way you are not addicted to the oxycodone, whether you want to believ it or not,your body is addicted. I had a broken hand a few years ago & w/ no ins. I waited weeks to go to the hosp. I ended up buying oxycontin on the streets till i fanally went to see a doctor 2 find out i now needed pins placed in my hand.
My point is that, i was taking 20 mg of an 80mg everyday for a week, then that didnt work, i got up to 40mg and before i knew i was @ 80mg and the oxycodone they gave me after surgery didn't work @all. i couldn't get away from oxy for almost 4years , 3 rehabs and I don't know how many detox facilities, 96 hour rapid detox surgery and methadone clinic and even tried seboxtone. NOt to mention over $200,000 btween that and the drugs themself.
Just because there prescribing it to you doesn't mean you can't get addicted. It's so easy to do. The pain of withdrawals is horrific and without a doubt the hardest thing I ever had to go through and the worst thing I could have done to may family. I've been clean almost a year and a half now & am just getting to be allowed to see my neices and get trust back. YOu can say it w/not happen to you and I'm weak or wanted to ruin my life, that's FAR from the truth. I thought i could control myself and I needed it and you may,bit to say you take that much eveymonth and you are not addicted is a lie & the lie is to yourself. I'm not trying to minimize your pain or call you a liar at all. I just know its physically immpossible not to be depended on them. TRy something non narcotic for a while and you will see the way your body craves it & you will be in pain, but a huge percentage of that pain would be from your body withdrawing from the oxycodone.
I wish you the best, just be careful your really killing your kidneys.
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Exactly & that much would kill most people. I actually doubt she is taking all that amount of drugs.
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People react to medication differently. One person may get goofy off 1/2 tablet of endocet, while another may not be even able to tell they took anything from the same dose. I personally have 3 bulging lumbar discs and my Dr. has tried many different pain meds and doses for me without success. Just today, I am starting a new med. Endocet 10/325. I have now taken 6 of them in the last 2 hours to try and relieve the pain and absolutely nothing. Just another waste of money for me. My doctor can not believe that none of the medication he has prescribed has helped at all. So you see, everyone is different. My aunt told me to ask for 40mg oxycontin tablets. She has them for back pain and gave me 1 last thanksgiving, and they did nothing for me as well. I'm pretty sure I need something way stronger than oxycodone, but my Dr refuses to help me except for trying low dose after low dose. I am getting really frustrated. Next week I go in for my 4th epidural injection. So far nothing from those either!! Looks like back surgery is going to be my only option:(
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I have a thoracic herniated disc pinching a nerve and making me very sick all the time the only thing that controls the sickness is endocet it is going on 2 years and waiting for surgery I am building a tolerance to the pills and am taking 25 endocet a day i tried other pills but nothing seems to work as good as the endocet, i am at my limit with the endocet right now as you are allowed 7.5 grams of tylenol in 24 hours. I also need surgery for a c7 herniated disc pinching a nerve, going on 2 years as well hopefully i will get surgery soon so i can cut back on the pills, i seem to be fine so far on this amount of endocet but will not push it any further.
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