****Apologies if this posted twice. I was just informed "I can now start new threads", and since I haven't received a response to this yet I thought maybe it didn't post yet, so here goes again:****
Hey everyone - I was wondering has anyone tried this?
I've been on a bag or bag + per day habit for almost a year, and varying amounts of H, oxy, and vicodin in the past 3-4+ years. Time for a change right?
I've tried detoxing, from the H at least to the subs, and every time I try the suboxone, and especially subutex, even after waiting 24, 30, or 36 hrs from last H use, the subs just seem to put me in a worse withdrawal, and I've wound up going back to the H to help me feel not so sick after a couple days.
So the question is, has anyone tapered off heroin and very, very slowly tapered onto small amounts of suboxone / subutex etc. and then made the change? I just can't seem to cross the bridge and do so without turning back around (which is more like crawling back where I came from barely able to get around).
***So this could, for example, be something like (Day 1): 3/4 bag H, (or 7 out of the 10 sealed stamped little wax-paper bags about 1" by a couple mm we have here in NYC), Zero Subs ; (Day 2): 1/2 bag H, 2 mg suboxone, (Day 3): wait 24 hrs, then do 4 mg suboxone and as little H as possible which could foreseeably "fill in" any gaps that my receptors are jonesin' for, let's say 3 or 4/10 of a bag, (Day 4): 8 mg suboxone, 2 or 3/10 H, and so on***
A big issue is, like with many people I can imagine, being able to function and not have to miss too much work, and not scare my girlfriend to death, who has been a little scared noticing me get sick a few times already this fall. I know it's a 'have your cake and eat it too' approach, but I'm just hoping to be able to transition to the subs, not with ZERO withdrawal symptoms, but with bearable withdrawal symptoms so that I can (1) function and (2) cross the finish line.
Any help would be very much appreciated! Hopefully I'll be in a position to help others with this down the road, and after I get some input & tips I'll definitely keep a log of how it goes.
"When I was younger my mom would say, 'Remember: Hugs, not drugs!' & I believed her - until the first time I got high at a party. After a while I realized, "gee, I never waited at 4AM at a shady parking lot in the Bronx to get a hug!'" -Artie Lange
I wish that I could help you but I am pretty new to this withdrawal stuff. I have been a recreational drug user for most of my life and a prescription opiate user for about 6 years. Recently I have taken to using stronger meds, roxy, that are not prescribed to me and heroin. I have never had a problem kicking any drug I have ever taken including meth. I am in brand new territory and very scared..
Then it's really good we're on this site my friend. I feel the same way...Although this, for me, has been building for around 5 or 6 years. 5 or 6 years ago I took a vicodin or two on the weekends, and it stayed the same for a couple years. Then I thought to myself "man I'm lucky, all these ppl get really addicted to this stuff or move on to other drugs".
Then maybe like 2009 I found myself buying and using a little more vicodins, and on one random trip the guy (or was it a girl? I forget) gave me these small pills called "roxy's". Since they were so small I figured they couldn't do much, so stupid...so I took the whole thing maybe 1 or 2 what I now know are 30's. Since I only took up to 2 or 3 x 10 mg vicodins before this, I was floored...but soon i found my tolerance building up, and needing more and more oxy's and spending more and more $ on them.
Fast fwd to 2011, summer, and I'm spending as much as ever on oxy's, and found that when I stopped them I felt horrible, like as sick as ever. I heard and saw on TV how people moved on to heroin because it was cheaper, and was surprised when I first bought it summer of 2011 that I didn't get more messed up (from snorting a decent amount), and then my tolerance to that went up a lot.
So now near the end of 2012 I have a couple lame attempts under my belt, although I do have a nice supply of suboxones built up - probably like 75 8 mg pills and like 8 x 8 mg strips, so I know when I finally move on I'll be set for a little while.
Anyway, since I don't shoot n stuff I feel like I could just do this forever and be relatively ok, however I spend sooo much $ on it that I just can't survive financially if I continue this way.
Hopefully someone will give us both some good info Daylight, but I'm thinking, for me, it will be a good idea to still have some H left (like even a couple bags or 20 x $10 bags) to, if anything, psychologically help me through.
It's funny you mention kicking other drugs, because I've used many other drugs through the years, but ketamine could have been said to be my drug of choice from 2002 - 2008, and towards the end I found myself so disgusted w myself that I'd buy and then THROW OUT a bunch of powder. I don't think either of us could imagine throwing out H powder or a bunch of Oxy's...
No matter what Daylight, I hope to keep in touch with you, and we'll help each other out. I know it's gonna be tough but we can do it. I'm not just saying that or trying to sound inspirational or whatever, I mean it. The very hard things are (1) getting through the brutal withdrawal process, and (2) getting over the physical AND psychological addiction. The great news is, unlike alcohol, xanax & other benzos, you don't die just from opiate withdrawal, even though you might feel like you might.
Anyway talk to you soon, I've been rambling...
your post screams out my current turmoi;..read my only post please its long like your but i need help or im afraid he will end up losing everything or his life.
usedtobmenowitshim 4 minutes ago
This may be long sorry...Im out of ideas. Im 32yrfemale w 3kids and my bf is losing his fight to be sober and clean off opiates. After a year of him trying to keep his habit a secret, he finally tells me 7mo ago he is addicted to opanas perks and said he worried he was gonna lose everything(he has a small business he used to proudly maintain and was on his way to being financial stable and happy)and his pills had cost him so much of his hard earned savings in 5or6months that he ended up letting go of his crew of workers(2guys) and was faced with having to be the laborer,boss,book keeper, and it was more than he could could deal with being 1man when it used to be 3men or 2men working. Well his business is seasonal landscaping in sring summer. leaf removal cleanup and winter ready for plowing in the winter...last year winter never really came like always with plenty of snow to plow and that was really difficult for us. losing close to 12.000 by the time spring got here he had a major depression and drug problem too. He decided last spring that our newborn baby deserved him sober so we attended a 3day intensive detox,Eagle Institute Michigan. It was bad enough to watch as we attempted two or so at home detoxing efforts. He never cud stick w it and needed to work to make our income but needed to use to work. It took two months and me threatening to leave him unless he attended rehab. It was expensive and it was an experience we both should never forget,still once back home and three weeks after his last dose of Naltrexone,he refused to take anymore and started using again. Only he was broke and opana isnt cheap on the street,all his pills were fromt he street-not prescribed to him. Ultimately, one of his opana suppliers was "kind enough" to get him something cheaper and ended up handing him a heroin addiction.
He isnt a shooter or smoker, his mode of transmission is snorting. To each addict their own method serves them best. He was not able to conceal his using but what he was using was something he knew I had zero tolerance for after my past expeirences with it. H what a b***h she is. Tricky b***h that refuses to silnce her hunger and will use every method and plot any means to make the user her slave and provider of her heroin. Anyways for four months I was refusing to let up, i knew he wasnt sober and he was too hooked to see how much pain and saddness his cycles of using lying about using and periods of withdraw between usage. He wasnt himself to me or family but he swore everyone was stuck on him going to rehab and would never let him be anything in their eyes but a user.
That brings me to last week, i walked into our bathroom and he was sitting on the floor with his hand closed and trying to hide whatever he had in it. I got this sick and scary feeling inmy stomach and ended up refusing to let him deny he had something in his hand, we wrestled over it he didnt want me to see it and i managed to get it from him. Thinking I would open the envelope he had and there be pills broken up or crushed to snort...it was heroin. I was baffled and stunned. I know what H does and I left the first man i loved 2daysfollowing his telling me and that was after 5yrs together. I knew he knew there was a chance I would leave him too,but this time I couldnt not with him. I wanted to be strong for him and walk him thru the recovery he faced if choosing to,if not Id leave. He and I came up with a plan to recover...taper for a week and detox with xanax immodium valerian and vitamins. Well its was his last day for using any on friday,oddly enough i expected to endure w him the type of things detox and wd was in his past attempts. But by saturday morning I was worried about why he wasnt showing detox symptoms like usual. He then pulled his usual past sh*t about he needs to work and flys out the door on a seconds notice,is unreachable from 1pm till 830pm when he gets in and isnt showing withdraws still but isnt admitting to using and swore he hadnt. He took some xanax and fell asleep, so i needed to know for myself whether or not he so much as tried to call his dealers...look at his phone and yep as soon as he left saturday around luch to work he was on the phone to his connections. But when i asked about it sunday morning he said he was tempted but not able to hook up. He never has any trouble hooking up when he is looking, and still not a withdraw like expected but after being asleep for 6hours he began sweating profusely and kept getting up and going to the bathroom repeatedly running the water whille he was in their and came back to bed and fell asleep till about 6-7hours later sunday after noon. He said he didnt feel good and was trying to convince me he was suffering wd but i wasnt buying it. He went to work and was MIA from 1pm till 830pm but swore he didnt use. I wasnt stupid but didnt wanna condem him over past failures.
How do i know if he is really sticking to the plan we made to be clean. What do I need to look for if I wanna know if he is high or was hours ago and needs more from withdraw signs.
I dont wanna give up yet he and i should beat this together...I am 12yrs clean off crystal and I was able to because of the people I got help thru and the fact that they too were former users. When do I finally walk away? How can he get thru this we still have 6months of naltrexone he didnt take as told by rehab doc. Is he able to take it now,even if he hasnt taken it since a week after his IM dose in july? I need to know what and how to help him, he has no drive or motivation for living most days if he doesnt use and its very discouraging to him to see what he put our family thru and how much he is losing to this demonic tricky b***h called addiction...if you made if this far thanks for reading any advice is welcome/
Thanks for the post usedtobeme. Sounds like he's in a similar position as I am, but somehow I'm able to fly under the radar w everyone, although who knows how long that will last.
I also added up the $ I spent on drugs the past year, my God!!! More than half my savings, which was a decent amount, that is $ I should have used to get married and have kids, and it's gone. But I shouldn't see everything as lost already; I'm not in debt, and I still have a little bit of $ left. It's just so damn hard getting sick and then ending up coming back to H.
Your boyfriend needs to stock up on all the good stuff for a legitimate detox attempt - and if his dealers have any heart like mine do, they'll offer suboxone or something like that. Either way once your bf makes it to suboxone maintenance, you and his other significant others need to keep supporting him to make sure he doesn't back-slide. Either way, once he's on suboxone as you know he won't be able to get onto H or feel it at least for 24 - 36 or more hrs.
The tough part for him and for me is getting fully onto that part of recovery; past WD's and onto suboxone. Make sure you and he stock up on immodium, which helps not just w GI symptoms but also opiate WD, as well as xanax for sleep, something like clonidine or a blood pressure med for jitters / restless legs, and there are a bunch of supplements he can try.
Anyway please keep me posted. I'm still not clean, but I am stocked up on suboxone and am gearing up for a solid attempt, I just can't let me gf see me get so sick again so I'll plan around her schedule...
and a month later we are still dealing with this issue. He has only managed to try new ways to hide his using and in turn Ive become a masterdetective trying to out him for using. This is the worst battle ive ever fought. I feel likeits my fight as he hasnt the strength to say no like many addicts find ourselves feeling. Im running out of forgiveness and chances arent easily flowing either. He isnt able still to overcome this...he only manages to attempt to hide it with lies which has complicated things beyond belief. I dont know what will happen...Im growing tired and spread thin by it all after so many months of being the soldier in his war. Pray for my patience and strength to see this thru for him and our family. Its been rough.