SUBOXONE WITHDRAWLS SO SO BAD!!

INFO SOUGHT ON CHICAGO PRESCRIBERS BY ONE.
Thread seemed to diverge. FYI- ANY physician in Illinois cannot abandon/discharge a patient without 30 days notice UNLESS the patient is threatening and/or dangerous in which case authorities must be notified. And should be in writing. Unpaid bill to doc- still 30 day notice.
I have never (just 2 fatal attraction type stalkers long long ago) rejected a patient. Every year a mammogram refuser it seems must be told if you want to keep me then get it done, otherwise 30 days to find a new doc, works every time. But not at all as described in first post, more a empty altruistic ultimatum.

Do not let your physician cut you off cold. it is illegal unless the patient has done something illegal and reportable.

And since tangentiality seems to have initiated my comment to all the buprenorphine folks in chicagoland--

1. Is generic 8 mg subutex available and where? (buprenorphine itself is not patented merely the sl combo)
2. Cost comparisons? seems 260/30 down to 135/30 and if in some savings club as low as 110/30 at a large chain begins with a W.
3. Do any subutex prescribers also do physician dispensing?
4. If subutex were free and $$ not a limiting variable would it be more effective? or restated if financial stressors were eliminated could you either get by on less or be able to make the transition at a higher level of addiction. Right now it seems if stable at 40mg methadone/day a non-whiner can cross over.
5. How many "bad backs" are out there alone, prevented from seeking help due to employer discovery/accountability levels of profession
fearing treatment because of possible discovery? (If use insurance impossible to keep confidential, must be able to pay out of pocket, and have a prescriber aware of and capable of protecting confidence.)

Illinois PMP since 2000 requires every controlled prescription be reported to state database to block doc shoppers. name and a number gets anyones med history. But it is hassle, barcode scanner, software, using a pc instead of my mac, and a reasonable monthly charge to have sealed barcoded bottles delivered (I never want to see the things to be blunt, just a sealed bottle) but the savings are substantial. 165/30-8mg or 100 less than pharmacy (for brand). Ex- 100 2mg xanax 18. so if generic readily available price plummets roughly 4-6 months from release. And with EMR impending physician dispensing will be the only way to insure anonymity/confidentiality.

Those pharmacies with a sizable name brand inventory understandably will want to sell those out before ordering the generic, or will expire and initial wholesale cost completely lost. If an rx cost 260. very likely that bottle of thirty cost over 200-240 as profit margins slim on name brand.

But several of my folks doing well are struggling financially, I use a sliding scale but there are limits, and the extra difference generic makes is important so I am asking for help here chicaguh bupers...... seriously these are the things I need to know, thank you.

I have been a faithful Lortab user for 7 years and like the first post I seen, couldn't even get "high" anymore, just eating handfuls to feel normal. I'm a street buyer so it was really getting out of control. A friend turned me onto suboxone and I of course, looking for the lil twinge of the buzz that I had gotten from the tabs went back and forth several times. Try and fail! Well, I got a week's worth of Subs and decided to break myself off again, for good. It's been 3 days and I'm ok I guess you could say. The cold sweats have passed but my mind is definitely not right lol. Feel like I'm looking through someone else's eyes and that freaks me out. I am totally uncoordinated still and that sux as I wasn't so coordinated on the damn things. God bless yall trying to get clean. My uncle committed suicide over withdrawls and that is what woke me up. The only advice I have been given that has actually worked for me is to trust Jesus and keep yourself hydrated. I'm still fighting going back to buy more. UGH! Just gotta keep fighting I guess. Best of luck to yall.

i am on day 3 without subs, this is my second go at stopping them and the last time the same thing happened to me. day 1 and 2 seem to go ok but the second night both times it seems like my legs want to run a marathon for hours when i try to fall asleep. tonight i sucked on the tablet and took a small nibble off the corner to try and ease my legs, i am just wondering if this has happened to anyone else and what could be done to stop it? taking a very small piece was the only thing i could think of but now i might have it happen again in 2 days which goes against my trying to quit. thanks chris (been taking subs for about 6 months now to stop my years of perc's/oc's)

I myself was on Sub's for close to 6 months taken 16mgs a day. And 14 days ago I quit cold turkey. Yes day three blew and I thought I was never going to be right lol. I am posting this asking if anyone has stayed off of Sub's for good and how long untill RLS quit and you could function like a normal person? I have been working out a little each day now and hell I am able to acutully post here instead just reading. I am guessing the faster I get in shape the quicker I will be my normal self. I have always been the hyper over active guy and this sitting around bones hurting is driving me crazy. And btw to the guy above that said Sub was easy to come off of, get outta here bro you have no idea what your talkinga bout I am a healthy 29 yr father and husband and I can't even function like myself in day 14 !! Just my 2 cents but any help with my questions I would be greatful and thank you in advance. Heres hoping day 14 tonight I can sleep all night =)

You need to wean your self off of sub. Wean yourself down to at least .5 mgs a day, for about 2 weeks, then .25mgs a day for two weeks, Then jump off and maybe every other day do a crumb. A crumb can help a lot. I weaned myself down to crumbs!!! And then crumbs every other day and then I stopped. The hardest jump was from 1 mg to the .5 (for me) That is the easy way to come off sub. Jumping off at 2 mgs. would be hell, So don't do it. Wean yourself down to CRUMBS. I am serious. I did this and posted my experience here on this board about 9 months ago.

Hello to followers of this forum. I am a buprenorphine provider. Kindly refer to my prior post on page 2. I am looking for anonymous objective info/answers to the questions raised on my last post. In all honesty I highly value this information source so as to better assist those in my care.
All users of this treatment modality seem unnecessarily encumbered by the cost of these meds. I really would appreciate any individual case reports as they can only broaden and expand my knowledge base.

All buprenorphine users should be aware that the few valid studies done reveal a high risk period from month 6-24. This relates to those on stable maintenance. For reasons that are unclear if withdrawn from subutex after 6 months maintenance and before 24 months maintenance a statistically significant increase in morbidity and mortality, yes deaths from all causes or serious complications, M&M in medical lingo, is found.

One can speculate on the possible causes, not the place here, but be aware that if one can get 6 months on bups only under their belt the long term success is substantially higher if maintenance is maintained for a 2 year period. It took a while for folks to get into this spot and to return to a drug free state with a sense of well being cannot be accomplished quickly. Think of opiates as a pleasure credit card, eventually all must be paid back and with interest. I have waded thru the basic science research in this area, have seen the rat brain slices with receptors immunofluorescent identified at various stages of various agents and time frames so fully believe in the hard brain changes induced and the differing ways to return to normalcy.

So if tempted to withdraw between month 6 and 24, think twice and query your provider on this phenomena.

I look forward to learning from your side of the desk, so to say, and would appreciate any comments.

Thank you, an open minded provider.

P.S. medicaid covers suboxone not subutex UNLESS THE PROVIDER TAKES THE TIME AND TROUBLE TO CALL AND EXPLAIN THE INDIVIDUAL CLINICAL NEED. THEN SUBUTEX CAN BE COVERED.

Toughen up my ass! Subutex / Suboxone can make you WD for up too 6 months and a year for your brain to be at all normal, I am living the hell. I have kicked every drug there is, Illegal or legal and this sh*t is by far the worst ever for side effects and WD's after long term use (more than about 1 year). I have been on it 5 1/2 years and have been tappering for about 8 mnths and down to a Compounded 1/4mg per day and still am crawling out of my skin, jerking around, I'll talk your head off, my wife thinks I'm a jerk to be around with people because I talk a thousand miles an hour now, I can't hold a normal conversation. I have a VERY good pharmacist friend who really did some research for me and basically the longer you take it, it piles up on your receptor (I think 4 of your 6 pain receptor), so NO DOPAMINE for about a year. Toughen up, you try going a year with NO Endorphine production! And yes, it might be easy for one person and hard as hell for another, I am the later. This c**p is just that, c**p which should be sold on the streets so doctors realize it is unsafe. Made my Testosterone go to nothing, I now have Sleep Apnea )was stopping breathing about 225 times per night) so now I have to use a C-pap, and Im 40 years old, I look young untill bed time, then I look like a 90 year old man putting one his ox. Mask. I was a VERY active person, owned 2 very large busnisses, there almost gone now, but I plan on coming back.



Toughen up my ass, you sound like my doctor who has never taken anything that gave WD's before! This sh*t is by far the worst WD's you will ever feel!



5 year Sub. User

If your a doc providing Sub., Please get all your male clients checked for Low Testosterone. My doc didn't know this until I made him aware of this, I did a huge amount of research of my own since he really never had any good answers when I would go once per month. Now he gets all his patients checked and they mostly do have VERY low Test. levels, so I also now have to give myself a shot of Test. every week for life probably (3 years on Test. now), because once you start it, you really can't quit, your Nads quit producing. Anyway, I am a living Guenipig so I can give you just about every side effect one might experience at any given point in treatment. I even went to rehab to get off with no sucess since WD's last so long. I hope you learn a lot and help a lot of us who's docs really are strugling to completly understand this VERY strong drug.



Thanks



5 year Sub User

omg! I am on my 2 week without suboxone after taking it for 1 1/2 yrs. only 8mg but i still feel like s**t! My bones, can't eat goes right thru me!!!! And i hate the crying all the time!!!! I have to admit it is alittle easier than withdrawls from opiates but hell I thought I would'nt feel a thing. I have a family (husband,kids) that really think I brought this on myself so you think anyone feels sorry for me but me. I really understand why people say f*** it at least i can get stuff done and feel normal popping pills ya know. While on the suboxone I did see my "drug counseler" which did not help because every appt. he talked about his "mob" connected dad in KC. Now my suboxone dr. was VERY gruff, grumpy and unfriendly but at least i didn't have to listen to chit chat. What I hope after reading all the stories of suboxone withdrawl i am the "poster child" and I start to feel better ASAP!!!

I am here on this board after not being on any boards since I gotten on a suboxone regiment. I got off 100mg of various opiods (O-contins and O-codones) approx 1-1/2 yrs ago. Everything has been fine, I was on 32 mg a day and have tapered down to a current level of 6 mg daily. Only issues were EXTREME tiredness and some nose drippiness at time of taper. The constant pain I feel may be related to the taper but I accept as part of life. Long story short my taper has gone fairly well. Until....................last month my Dr tapered me to 4mg...I did not pick up on her telling me that I only discovered it when I had to push my appt off a week and counted my pills to see where that put me. At that time I realized she cut me to 4 mg and I was still taking 6. So 5 days ago I went abruptly from 6 to 2 for 2 days and for the last 2 days I have been doing 0.5mg. I have to stretch it for 2 more days. Suffice to say I started feeling yuk yesterday and REALLY yuk today. Not as bad a my original precipitated withdrawal, but where I had ideas where I could pull off my treatment easily, this speedbump has made me reevalute... I am kind of in the middle of "no problem at all" "it is a living hell" unless.....there is more to come the next 4 days until I can get refilled. If this feeling was just a bit better that I have , and my life did not have so much drama in it, I would s*ck it up and keep on at 1/2 mg and get over it. Kinda mixed up now.
Lenn

I am here on this board after not being on any boards since I gotten on a suboxone regiment. I got off 100mg of various opiods (O-contins and O-codones) approx 1-1/2 yrs ago. Everything has been fine, I was on 32 mg a day and have tapered down to a current level of 6 mg daily. Only issues were EXTREME tiredness and some nose drippiness at time of taper. The constant pain I feel may be related to the taper but I accept as part of life. Long story short my taper has gone fairly well. Until....................last month my Dr tapered me to 4mg...I did not pick up on her telling me that I only discovered it when I had to push my appt off a week and counted my pills to see where that put me. At that time I realized she cut me to 4 mg and I was still taking 6. So 5 days ago I went abruptly from 6 to 2 for 2 days and for the last 2 days I have been doing 0.5mg. I have to stretch it for 2 more days. Suffice to say I started feeling yuk yesterday and REALLY yuk today. Not as bad a my original precipitated withdrawal, but where I had ideas where I could pull off my treatment easily, this speedbump has made me reevalute... I am kind of in the middle of "no problem at all" "it is a living hell" unless.....there is more to come the next 4 days until I can get refilled. If this feeling was just a bit better that I have , and my life did not have so much drama in it, I would s*ck it up and keep on at 1/2 mg and get over it. Kinda mixed up now.
Lenn

Suboxone is supposed to be used over a short period of time to treat addiction. Months, maybe a year or more. Ya'll gotta remember it's supposed to be tapered and if you're up at 24 or 32mg a day that's alot. I've read that suboxone is much more potent and stronger than the grandad morphine. I started my program yesterday and told her straight up I only need low dose maintenance. And I'm coming from a considerable H habit 4-5x daily for a few weeks now, worse a year ago. Keep it low peeps, don't dose up high....Get exercise and eat right, FOLLOW A PROGRAM OF RECOVERY don't just use it to feel normal

In reply to this post "tonight i sucked on the tablet and took a small nibble off the corner to try and ease my legs, i am just wondering if this has happened to anyone else and what could be done to stop it. That is where I am at....I am down from 16 mg daily to .25 mg every other day, and there I hit the wall. The things that are stopping me are the leg heebiejeebies. Taking the .25 mg makes them go away. My brain is still messed. I have a multitude of issues, I am detoxing off from the suboxone, lexapro and nuvigil all at the same time. I have been off lexapro for a month and 150 mg nuvigil too. On top of this I got this kickass cold 2 weeks ago that took what little life I had away from me. I have a high stress job that I am been barely functional for the last month. They havent caught on but my motivation level is gone. Sum up I am a mess. I am about a mini step from losing the will to live. To be truthful unless I go inpatient I don;t see much help for me, most answers are "suck it up". Sorry I have sucked it up all my life and I don't have any gas left in the tank. I have dabbled with weed the last 2 weeks as it kind of calms me down, but the mind games that made me quit weed before are still there, just now, those mind games are the lesser of two evils. One bit of good news is that sometimes i get to day 3 before i hit the subs but thats rare, especially since my insomnia is horrific. During my cold, no amount of nyquil and melantonin made me sleep. I had a period of 5 days where I had 6 hrs sleep. Helpppppppppppppppppppppppp

Being one of the "hard to get off subs" ppl, I can almost see that its the ones like us that are hard-wired to be addicts, have the hard time breaking free. My mother, the exact opposite of me, I could see her following a dosage schedule religiously and get off them with no ill effect. Right now, I am on 1/2 a mg every 48 hrs. If I get busy and wrapped into stuff I have gotten to 72 hrs. Then magically I snap-realize I am over the 48 hrs wall, and I start getting RLS immediately.

i was on 150mg of Oxycontin a day smoking it for about a month and a half... i have taken suboxone today for withdrawals (about 4mg) and about 2mg yesterday... after reading all of this im going to say f**k it all and go cold turkey... suboxone is in the f*****g toilet and i got myself into this mess im going to get out of it... i am better than a junkie and much more strong to let this c**p over power me. i hope you guys can find the gut to get out yourself also without using a thing.