My Hemorrhoid cure....No surgery, no pain, no scaring

Sorry just to clarify....it did make things worse.
I just cant say as to how yet as I havent had the surgery or the scope work done. But it certainly did make things worse

You say to let them keep trying cause its free but after 8 weeks with them I am worse off, and then they tell me they are going to repeat the same procedure and it will get better. The procedure hurt at times and was uncompfortable for 4 of the 8 weeks and now I am supposed to go through that all again and hope for a better result.....that is the very definition of insanity. Not only that but after 8 weeks and getting worse instead of better they did nothing make me feel more comfortable or confident in the treatment, they made no attempt to explain anything any better. And not one follow up call since. In fact it almost seemed like they were done with me, which is funny because i wasnt better.

Like I said before if they can't share the info and work with or at least consult or talk to your doctor then I question it.
There is virtually no info on this clinic, they are secrative about their ways and every doctor I have spoken to since has advised against it. W

When you see the Doc next ask her/him to give you a full breakdown of what compounds and "medicines" are being used and exactly what the expected outcome is and how they hope to acheive this. If they can't provide this then its use at your own risk as I have learned........and what are those risks........well we don't know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been checking out this clinic as well but haven't really found much on them & I'm thinking the same thing Kel2985 + the guest on the last page is - what happens if the "herbs" they give you cause side effects. And what exactly are the herbs.

I'm not really a believer in chinese medicine, so am looking for more info. In my google searches I also found NAITCM (extra I) as well. It looks like the exact same type of clinic, also in the toronto area and if you click the services tab on there and scroll down a bit - there's some basic info on the stuff they use.

None of the 3 western doctors I've talked to, have ever heard of these clinics fyi. I emailed Columbia Hospital as that's supposedly where they have been partners and they haven't heard of anything like NATCM/NAITCM - neither the actual colorectal department, nor the clinical trials/research department . NATCM/NAITCM also didn't answer any of my emails about medical research.

"A spokesperson for the practice explained, The Bah Zhi San compound was developed by Dr Chen Guoyi when he was just 18, and has since seen him propelled to the president of the Chinese Anorectal Medical Workers Training Base, giving lectures all around the world in the treatment of these conditions using holistic medicine. The university of Columbia medical centre in the US has already implemented his techniques for treatment"

The one useful thing I did find in my research though was on google books - if you search on there for "The Treatment of Modern Western Diseases With Chinese Medicine: A Textbook" and within that book search for hemorrhoid and/or ba zhi san (page 268) - there's some info on the stuff they use.

Also, I don't understand why everyone keeps saying that 90% "cure" rate is amazing, considering that is the standard western cure rate when it comes to hemmies. "Fewer than 10% of all patients evaluated with symptomatic hemorrhoids will require surgical management. Most patients respond to non-operative treatment and do not require a surgical procedure. "

If your only option is surgery, then this might be worth a shot. Otherwise, most can be managed via western means as well.

The other clinic in Mississauga that you speak of does not have the same compounds and treatment success like NATCM. They are simply leveraging off the success of the NATCM operation. They do not offer a money back. If they did they would go broke overnight. Success rates really need to be explained further. My idea of success is a complete eradication of the problem. This is the case for my situation. The Western docs can fix te hemmie but it will most likely come back. Plus the recover period is excrutiatingly painful. Yes, they technically got rid of the hemmie but at what cost and the solution is only temporary in most cases. As for believing in one paradigm or another, in 10-15 years medical doctors will be turning their medical to the wall in exchange for showcasing all their other natural degrees. A Western doc is like the guy that tried to put Humpty Dumpty back together. They wait for the problem to occur and then have marginal success in a complete recover with no side effects. The West spends trillions of dollars on healthcare and have the worst numbers for the major diseases and conditions. If we are so good then why do countries with no healthcare have almost non-exist rates of disease for many of the diseases that plague Western civilization. It gets exhausting to point out the obivous.

If it makes things worse then I would not proceed. However, you could let them know what is happening and maybe they can adjust the compound mix. I have seen them make adjustments for other people with successful results. They had to adjust my remedy slightly and had terrible constipation issues that were complicating things. I saw a listing of compounds in an earlier post. The tone of your email suggests that they are wasting your time by having to repeat the procedure. Trial and error is part of medicine because everyone is different. What happens when a cancer patient goes through a grueling round of chemo and then has to repeat it. We have double standards when it comes to natural medicine vs. Western medicine. The track record over time is your best indicator.

Hi Cbello,

I am (as I am sure everyone else is) still hopeful about this process/clinic however it is hard going into somthing completely blindly with no explanation as to what medicine's are being put in your body. I have never heard of a TCM clinic keeping remedies secret, and there is really no point as they could freely tell their patients what is in the compound without giving away the quantities, etc that make their compound so "special".

Of further concern would be the fact that it is impossible to find out any information on them outside their own website and that in trying to verify any of the claims about collaborating with other universities around the world, noone has been successful (it sounds as thought both myself and "isitreal" have reached out to the schools listed as well as NATCM to verify with no success). Furthermore, none of the chinese acupuncturists I have spoken with here in my state (who moved here not long ago and are very well educated) have heard of the Chen family, which is also somewhat disconcerting given their supposed accolade in China. I will be calling the NATCM once again to try and reach anyone who might be able to give any answers, but so far I have gotten none.

I know you wrote the article for Vitality magizine, were you able to verify any of their information on medical collaborations?

Even if the process was successful in the short run, I would still definately want to know what was used in my body as again, TCM is not free of long term side effects, etc. I just think the clinic should be MUCH more transparant in their work, that is all. I haven't ruled them out yet, I am still hopeful, but these are things which I find concerning right now. If you have any further information in these areas it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much for getting back to me Dinie. I will try getting in touch with the office and see if Dr. Chen is available. If not, I will drop you a line as I would love her number. Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it!

No Problem, you're welcome

I so very agree with this, The NATCM warned others that they have only ONE clinic in Toronto and when you call them you know that others just try to copy them, Doctor Chen runs the clinic in Toronto and his sister runs the one in Vancouver and their father who start the clinic in Canada lives in Vancouver but is a lot in China too. I have a friend who had hem surgery but after 6 months they came back after (like you said) a painful recovering.
i had my treatment on February 28, Doctor Chen in Vancouver still check on me how I am doing, she is a very wise and good doctor and YES she have a license and YES she does speak English very well.
I live in America for 8 years now coming from Europe and never in my life I saw so many pills given to patients as here, it is all about the money in this healthcare system, I had bad side effects from some medicine the doctors here gave me and was nearly in a shock after a bad allergic reaction, so what is good for one is maybe not for others but my experience with herbal medicine is very good.
People if you don't want to do the treatment, DON'T but stop badmouthing those doctors.
Stop trying to tell others how they screw up because I have spoken with many people before I did the treatment and I would never have done it if I had doubts.
Last monday I got a bad throat infection, I went to the herbalist here in Phoenix,AZ and he gave me medicine, all in a big bag and I made tea from it and now the pain and swelling is nearly gone.
The NATCM have no secrets, just a family recipe and when everybody have that recipe they are going to copy it with the results that things going wrong. I am a attorney, know how easy it is to got a lawsuit.
When I cooking and have people over for dinner, they always ask me for recepies but I always say NO!
Some things I let in the family and only my children get them.
Again, if you want to go to a Western Doctor it i your free choice, if you want to try the Chinese treatment than it goes on their way, the way that brought them success for many many years.
I still wait for that person who talked about her Chinese doctor that has helped her int this world, I would like to have his name because he is the one who are going to do the surgery, isn't?
Now people, I wish you all the very best, get better soon, I know that my life is good now without that painful hems, I am happy that I did the treatment and will never badmouth this doctors, they are angels to me and very very good in their work, of forgive me my bad English but like I said, I am not from this country and still learning like the Chinese doctors who grew up in another country but came to Canada to help people

When you have friends over for dinner and you cook them food and one has an allergic reaction or a bad reaction to the food.........Then will you tell them whats in your recipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY GOD smell the coffee!! The proces may or may not work and may work for most and not a select few but for the ones it doesn't work on what are the possible side affects or possible negative outcomes from doing this. Not once has this been discussed anywhere and for some unknown reason Dr Chen wont talk about it either. I was back to see my doctor today, who has since tried to look more into the clinc and found nothing except the webpage and the same threads as me. We also discussed what they did and explained to me at the clinic about the procedure and he had a very good point. The Dr at the clinic told me the "medicine" was going to make the Hemmy fall off, OK, but wht if it wasn't a hemmy to begin with or what if the problem was more than just that. Now you have pieces of skin or more "falling" off. What if they missed or gave you too much "medicine" what if good areas "Fall off" I wont be back to the Clinic and won't recommend it to anyone and will continue to try to find out what I was given. AGAIN, this was my experience only, and I am not saying it doesn't work as you can see from some it does. My bigest concern with this place is the lack of info and the wht if's arent answered at all. If something does go horribly wrong what recourse or medical coverage do you have and who fixes it and what went wrong as they arre not willing to share anything. makes it far more difficult for my doctor to determine the proble as he has no idea what I was given or what was done. Complete Joke as far as I am concerened. to those who keep saying western medicine is all about the money..............NATCM clinc charged me 2800 for this procedure, and more than happy to accept cash in fact cash was asked for and encouraged. NO TAX funny hey! not to mention the whole priciing. Apparently for me it was 1000 per Hemmy and 800 for the fissure. This is funny because I have read in other [osts peole were charged different amounts and i spoke with people at the clinic who were charged different amounts for the same things and also encouaged to pay cash. Come on people does this sound like its on the up and up or does it sound more like a back alley clinic. Funny the university they are supposed to be associated with has never even heard of them and funny that no one from the clinic cares about any of this. Its a percentage game.......if they see 100 people, 50 of them will heal naturally on their own with or woithout treatment, even if they can't help 50% more then hey profit!!! No way to lose.

Hey Dinnie, just sent you a request contact thing as it doesn't show you as "registered" so won't allow a private message to be sent...I think this is likely just because you weren't logged in when posting or somthing...anyways sorry if it sent a ton of requests...about 8 confirmations just popped up when I hit the button! Would love to send you a quick message for some info though since the boards keep taking it down. Thanks again!

I wasn't registered, just did it and had to put another name in it, instead of Dinie it is now DiWi, sorry for that.

You said, you was back to the clinic today? You mean the clinic in Vancouver? Hmmm, that clinic is under construction!!!!
Anyway, maybe it was open today.
It is really strange that you are so negative about this all, that you said that they push for cash money because of the tax?
I had mixed hemorrhoids, 3 big ones outside and two smaller inside, they charged 1000 for the big ones and 300 for the smaller ones that made 3600 plus tax I payed a little over 4000 with my CREDITCARD!!!
They asked me or I want to pay debit or credit but not CASH!
So maybe you went to a different clinic? Maybe you just be confused? Maybe you are so disappointed that you not want other people to go there.
Doctor Chen became a good friend to me, she is honest and open and so I did talk with people in the clinic, I made some good friends while I was treated and I called them all today, I asked them or they felt that there was a push to pay cash and how much they payed, ALL had the same answer, they payed with a card and it was 1000 dollar for the big hems.
See, I am a attorney, I know when a doctor screws up, you can go into a lawsuit for malpractice, WHY you not doing that? after you be done with the court maybe you can update here how it went.
When I came back to the US, I went to my family doctor, she was very happy, she told me that it looked very good and that the doctor did a great job.
I feel sorry that it didn't work for you but like i said, you can go into a law suit if you think that something is wrong, but if you let us know which clinic you went than I am very willing to talk with doctor Chen about this, you can give me your name in a private message.
I did a very good research before I went into that treatment because I had my concerns, I asked many questions and get many answers, I never felt that they injected medicine in the hemorrhoids, I only know that they use a little sharp needle (painless) to make a little opening so the blood could get out, but with me they didn't use needles at all to inject medicine, all the medicines I got was what the ointment they put on and they also gave me some home after I was done, they would never give it if they are scared because everybody knows that you can go to every lab with it to check it.
You also can let call your doctor the clinic, isn't that your doctor is Chinese?

Foret to mention, do you think that the government will allow this doctor to have a new clinic IF they are not able to do their
work? IF the government think that those doctors are a joke, WHY they let built a new clinic for the doctor?
I really think that you are very upset and like i said, go to the court!

You say you did all this research can you post some of it so others can see! I didnt say I couldnt pay with a credit card just they said if I could pay cash it would be better.

You are misunderstanding me here.......I am not saying it doesnt work or not to go, I talked to other patients as well before and during treatment and it apparently worked for some. not all but most. Otherwise i wouldn't have tried it in the first place. I am not saying the Dr was rude or bad, he just dint speak english very well and there was nobody else there. My concerns came about once things started to get worse and the only option they gave me was and i will quote the Dr that I was seeing here "More needle to fix" "more Medicine" that what I am being told when I am now worse of than before and what appears to have made me worse is that exact treatment.

Why would I try again? Now the problem I am having is my Dr (yes the chinese Dr who delivered me) would like to know some more info about what was done and what I was given and what the possible complications could be from this and well..........no answers!!!!!!! that is my problem

They have provided answers to me and my referrals on a number of occasions. I saw familiar ingredients posted elsewhere in this forum. They will not divulge certain proprietary aspects of their process and they have a right to do so. Nobody understands property rights better than North Americans since for the good part of century we were on the top of the heap in this regard. From what I gather from the tone of your emails is that they do not meet Western standards and that they don't speak English to your satisfaction. When my family came from Italy they did not demand that Americans speak Italian to their satisfaction. They brought along a translator or did what was necessary to bring themselves up to speed. It is clear that you are looking for a problem where there is none. They have the skils, they have the experience, they have the results and they the test of time on their side. These people are hitting home-runs on a regular basis. We need them; they don't need us. The people that are on this forum for the most part are fed up of the money driven, corrupt western medical system that is built on treatment without a complete and lasting cure. Take the time to compare the two modes of treatment based on what patients really want. There is no contest.