My Hemorrhoid cure....No surgery, no pain, no scaring

I spoke to the Toronto doc specifically about your situation. I was surprised because in the 4 years that I have been with the clinic I have never heard of a situation like yours. I have sent many happy customers so I have direct experience with the success rate. He specifically checked his records and there is no one that fits your profile-not even close. And, let's face your profile would stick out like a sore thumb. HUMMH!!!! So if understand this correctly you have acknowledged that you have spoken to other people in the waiting room and they have told you of their success but you now feel compelled to become a one-man wrecking crew to discredit them. Sounds very fishy to me. I will no longer give serious weight to your posts until I am assured your situation actually exists the way you have indicated it in this forum. By the way, the docs are more than happy to refund all your money if you are not satisfied. This is absolutely amazing in itself and completely unheard of in Western medical circles. If this is a scam then they are going about it all wrong. As Dinnie said in an earlier post you have the right to go elsewhere to find your fix. Let us enjoy our perfectly functioning rear ends courtesy of the miracle workers whose only real fault is they cannot speak English or play the Western medical game to your satisfaction. P.S. Your last statement is a clear sign that you are not a true bum problem sufferer and more evidence that something is fishy. If you were really suffering like we do then you would be ready to accept a solution from just about anywhere. I know I was fit to be tied when I was suffering for 12 years and from reading other posts on this forum there are many others that feel the same. "50% of them will heal naturally on their own or without treatment." Really!!!!! Are you on drugs?

Noone is saying the process/medicine doesn't work for people or bashing the clinic. I actually hope it does as the surgery for hemmies is a horrible thing. What the "negative" people are saying here - is that if you're actually friends with the doctors and clinics - you should tell them that they should be more open about what they do. Provide us with some info, post it here, post it on their website etc. Who is going to go to a doctor and let them put whatever they want inside them with needles. What are you going to do if something goes wrong/you have side effects? If you don't care about what they put inside your body - then by all means, go to random doctors and do what you need to do.

Not to mention as I said - I contacted almost every western university they said they had "cooperation" with - and NONE of them heard of Dr Chen nor NATCM nor Ba Zhi Sa. If you're friends with the doctors - why don't you ask them to provide us with this info? It won't disclose anything about their methods.....There is also no info on a "Anorectal Medical Workers Training Base" which they have listed on their site.

And yes, most hemmies go away on their own:

"Fewer than 10% of all patients evaluated with symptomatic hemorrhoids will require surgical management. Most patients respond to non-operative treatment and do not require a surgical procedure. "

Re: US clinics. The reason the clinics were opened in Canada vs the US is because its easier to practice non-western medicine in Canada. You just get a special license saying you're a practitioner. You don't have to be a medical doctor. Thus it's much easier to open in Canada vs the US.

Re: suing for malpractice. This is almost impossible to do in Canada as you have to show a marked departure from the standard professional procedures and quite a bit of negligence on behalf of the physician in order to be able to sue. Good luck with doing that with a TCM clinic.

I asked you before, can you give me the name of YOUR Chinese doctor but you not react on that, his name and where he is located!!!!

And again, I agree, I don't know where this person went to but the clinic in Vancouver is closed because they are going to open soon another clinic, Doctor Chen is going to visit her patients at home to treat, she did that also with me the last week of my treatment two weeks ago.
I asked a few times for the name of the Chinese doctor from this person, the Chinese doctor who helped her bring into this world 40 years ago and later 37 years ago and also her sister. This person seems to ignore this question from me and not give a name so far.
I also have a bad taste in my mouth but give people the benefit of the doubt and know that what goes around comes around but it is a shame that they attack this doctors, doctors who did do medical school, who practice for many years, some people never went to school and have comments about another, what is going on here?
Like you said Cbello, they are very willing to pay you the money back, I also think that some people here using more names to back them self up.
Anyway, I am not a judge, I will be in Vancouver in May again for a check up and will go in to the bottom of this, even in Vancouver there is a law suit for malpractice.
And when I came from Europe I also didn't demand that people learned my language, when you go there you know that this doctors are Chinese.
I feel a little bit strange about this whole thing and will call Alison Chen about this and ask her or she will go inot their files and let me know when I am there in May.
I wish this person good luck on April 3 when she have a hemmie surgery

I'm confused. Are you the same person that has been bashing the Chen process under a Guest account. Initially you came in as a guest now you are registered as "isitreal" Can we count on you remaining with this handle or will you be switching between guest and other log on names? This is very important because I want to make sure my statements are being directed at the same correct person.

Let's ssume your statement of 90% of ass problems go away on their own. If you take the 10% that are problematic and require surgery then the majority of them will see success with Chen process where they would have none with Western, "slice and dice" procedures. The people in this category, the ones that are on this forum will simply laugh at you if you tell them that 90% will have a full recovery if they just wait. This in itself a clear indication that you are not going through what the average chronic bum sufferer goes through. Half the people on this forum would probably consider dipping their ass in battery acid if they thought it might help. Questioning the makeup of the acid or where it was researched would not be major stumbling blocks.

Natural healing methods have been around since the beginning of time and is the predominant method of medicine for much of the world's population. Western medicine is a recent anomaly, a pimple on the elephant's ass, if you will. One of the primary ways in which Big Pharma and Western medicine protect their turf against natural healing is by demanding that natural healers demonstrate efficacy by investing in the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of tests and research to back up their claims knowing full well that the typical natural healer does not have money to do this. This makes for a very unlevel playing field that effectively allows the Medical Mafia to win without a fight. When you look at it objectively from the patient's point of view then you will see that it's the other way around - it is the natural approach to solving health problems that has the much better results with much less issues. Yes, it would be convenient for the Chens to cough everything they know about their process or partner with universities and research facilities so that they can bombard their patients with graphs and data rather than common sense. Unfortunately, this is not the way of the natural healer. The good news is that you have a choice. You can choose not to participate.

Please provide the dates that you were treated at the clinic. This will allow Dr. Chen to pinpoint exactly your particular situation so that there is no confusion as to what actually happened. Obviously, the docs will not release your name and other information so that your privacy under the law is protected but it will allow him to address specific comments directly. As I stated earlier I have never heard of a situation like yours in the four years that I have been involved and I think the members of this forum would be very interested in hearing Dr. Chen's side of things.

P.S. You can stop asking for Western style research and disclosure and pretending to make this the only reason why you think they are a scam or fraud. Their compounds and procedures are proprietary and have stood the test of time. If people like you succeed in chasing away natural healing back to their host country then this forum will be transformed into a travel blog where members compare the pricing of flights to China and the best places to stay while being treated tens of thousands of miles away.

P.S.2. The other thing to keep in mind is that no self-respecting Western doctor will ever agree to a competition with successful, proven natural healers based on objective criteria from the patient's point view. Namely the complete and permanent eradication of the ailment or disease with minimal pain and no side effects. This is what every patient wants but you almost never see effective comparisons of this type.The high point of Western medicine has been realized. Even my young kids know that if they get sick their Western doctor is not the one that is going to fix them.

This person's situation is not as he or she has presented it. Once they respond with exact dates it will be easy to for Dr. Chen to zero in on the issue and give their side of the story. I've asked for the exact dates of treatment with no names provided so if this person is "on the level" they will have no problem providing it. Let's see what happens.

Keep in mind that "back door" pain and suffering is big business with hundreds of millions of dollars, if not billions of dollars at stake. People like Dr. Chen essentially turn off this revenue stream overnight. In my I have not seen the colorectal surgeons in almost 4 years and I have never bought ass creams and salves during the same period. A war is coming our way as big money does whatever it can to protect its pocketbook. Luckily, for those that could afford it they can always fly to China.

Thank you  Thank you  Thank you    Isitreal    at least someone is reading the post!!!!!

 

I am the fellow who has been posting regarding his bad experience with the NATCM clinc,  the one who has the family doctor who delivered "him" 37 years ago,   the one who is "bashing" the clinic!!!!!   Sorry about the confusion in posting I am not registered and may have posted as guest or something else not sure.  Either way I am the one who is now worse of than before.

 

First, I am not bashing the clinic or the DR's,  I did some reasearch before going and even talked to people in the waiting room before agreeing, and   I AGREE the process does work for some, maybe even most.   My concern comes in for those that it doesn't work for ( Me and others).    What are the possible side effects, negetive outcomes etc.  if things don't work.

 

Cbello I can't beleive you question the validity of whether or not I am a true sufferer,,HAHA  the fact that I know of the clinic and found this thread says something doesnt it.   If your unsure you can ask Dr Chen.   I was treated back in Nov at the Vancouver clinc but not by here the male Dr.   I did speak with her and meet her though.  I also met Sara the receptionist and can even tell about the fish tank in the corner of the office seeing as how you question whether or not I have actually been there. (funny I know the pricing too!)

My concern is this, now that I have been treated and it didn't work and i appear to be in a bit of a worse situation (not sure yet as I haven't had a the work done) I want some info on the whole process and can't seem to get it......WHY?????

I am not going to argue with you, you say you know these people and have been in contact with thew for 4 years and have info regarding the process........PLEASE SHARE IT WITH US!!!!!!!

If you are in contact with them, point them to this thread and have them respond or have them email me at 

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You ask me to give my family Dr's name.............NO!!!!!   

 

You need to go back and read my posts,    you claim to be "friends" with them well then point them in the right direction my email is there and I can be reached on this forum.  If they truly are as caring and compasionate as you say they will get on here.

 

There is virtually no research on them on the net, no info, the companies and associations they are supposed to be affiliated with have never heard of them and the only info I could get DR Chen herself to send was this

 

Hi, 

For the mixed hemorrhoids, we use our secret recipe“Ba Zhi San” to shrink it, and causes the hemorrhoids fall off. The herbal cream such as copies chinensis, Radix Scutellariae, cortex phellodendri chinensis, bulbus fritillariae cirrhosae reduce inflammation. For the fissure, we use herbal cream such as pearl, amber, fossilizid, and calculus bovis help the fissure to be closed. 

 

 

Please Cbello if you know more post it!!!    If this process is truly this miracle that we need then why so secrative about everything

and lets not even get started about this money thing......are you kidding me,  that little office is making money hand over fist!  Yes it is money back I am aware as I got my money back...beleive me!  The oint I made is that 50% will heal on their own so even if they have to refund 50% well not too bad hey!  I mean the whole process isnt expensive for them but 2800 was my cost if it worked.     Now  let me say this.....IF IT WORKED I would have paid triple!!!!!     I wanted the process to work i really did  or had it not worked and I was the same as before and was refunded then no problem nothing lost nothing gained.

 

BUT..... when I come out possibly worse off and can't seem to get an answer or much info I start to question things and here in Canada we have that right.    All I have been saying is         people get the info first, if they are that confident in their practices they will be more than happy to share.   

 

To the clinc, if you are going to operate a business (yes profit generating business) in Canada then you need to staff it accordingly.......that means ENGLISH must be a consideration.    If you are going to Call yourself a DR in Canada then you are open to some level of scrutiny.   

 

When I went to the clinc i was desperate to avoid surgery.... and I admit I should have asked a lot more questions and had more interactions with my DR's regarding the clinc. I am just trying to make sure people do that and don't get the DEAR IN HEADLIGHTS feeling i got when the dr looks and smiles and says "yeah yeah we fix no probwem"   pardon the rudness.  But thats what happens you dont totally understand but you hers "fix no problem"   and you kinds stop thinking.   

 

PEOPLE JUST GET THE INFO FIRST.

 

CBELLO  if you know or are in contact with the clinic then have them post or email.   Otherwise stop telling people to just trust them.    Again i am not saying dont go or that it doesnt work.......just be carefull and ask about the what if's before agreeing.   you would do this with a normal DR and they would answer....with percentages!!!!

 

I think being treated by the male doctor in Nov is better but please provide the date range so that Dr. Chen knows exactly who you are and is able to respond accordingly. I wouldn't want him commenting on the wrong case. Please help here.

I do not look at natural doctors from the perspective of Western docs as you do. I consider the natural docs to be he real McCoy and the Western docs to be the imposters. It is the Western docs that need to prove their case and not the other way around.

As my treatment progressed and I witnessed firsthand my magical transformation from pain to pain-free, I was naturally curious about their incredible process and how it worked but unlike you I did not demand research results and double blind studies. This kind of demand is a slap in the face to a natural healer. It suggests that they what they did for eons before Western medicine was a waste of time.

I asked questions about how the process work and what was involved. Here is what I know for general informational purposes:

- The proprietary blend of herbs and healing components are very complex to make. Dr. Chen that one in ten thousand TCM doctors can even attempt to make them. It's not just about a bunch of herbs made into a paste. One of the active ingredients, for example, is a sublimed compound!! This is definitely big boy medicine.

- The family has been healing these disorders for 5 generations. Dr. Chen's grandfather was particularly gifted. When he died recently the funeral was 14 days long and over 20000 people attended. Dignitaries from around the country attended.

- I saw elsewhere a listing of the main ingredients. They look familiar to the ones that I had been given but so what. Let say I would I had every ingredient in their remedies what would I do next. I am not prepared to do hundreds of hours of research to determine whether everything is kosher. Just like Western medicine the patient needs to take a leap of trust.

- The simplest way to describe their process is that they trigger the body to rebuild tissue in the affected areas. This is why there is no scar, blemish or weakness at the infected areas and the main reason they are able to confidently offer a guarantee. In fact, their compounds are so sophisticated that they can modify the active ingredients so that they can rebuild skin in other areas of the body. This is why their crohn's remedy is so effective, for example.

- Large hemorrhoids dry up and fall and the area of contact is healed and blemish free.

- Small hemorrhoids are "pushed" back into the body and the area of contact is healed and blemish free.

- Fissures are healed from the inside out. There is no stitching, scar or weakness which would occur with Western approaches to the same problem. At least that was the case with my fissure.

- Fistulas are painstakingly healed one by one. They have healed people whose network of fistulas look like a map of the London subway system. In one case, it took them 8 months to heal the mess but they go it done.

- Like anything else there are people that may be allergic or sensitive to the herbs they use. But just like people that allergic to foods the solution is to avoid them not to ask the grocery store or grower for full disclosure and results of university research and other data.

This is all I know about the Chen process. I gathered this information not to prove or disapprove the validity of the Chen process but rather for my own curiosity.

In your case, it did not work for you for whatever reason. Who knows why these things happen. They just do. Just tell you story instead of bashing the c**p of the docs. If you poll the people on his forum you will find that the Chens have had an overwhelming net positive benefit on people with chronic bum problems. If you are this jaded then try the surgery route. You might be one of the lucky few that gets full satisfaction from the Western docs. If you do, then come back and tell us. There are people on this exchange that cannot afford the money and don't mind the extra pain that may consider surgery a viable option. To each his own.

Hey Cbello,

I don't think anyone is bashing the Chens or the clinic and I don't think it is fair to bully someone out of this discussion board that did not get good results, or those looking to answer questions about the program prior to committing to spending thousands on traveling out to try it. I don't think anyone is demanding "double blind studies" as you say...rather I, along with a couple others, are wondering why the scholarly bodies/universities which the clinic claims themselves on their website to have worked with (and therefor is fair game for requireing verification), do not seem to have heard of them. Again, I think as they themselves post these claims on their website, it is completely fair to inquire as to specifics.

As well, it is curios as an outsider to be hearing quotes as you said like "- The family has been healing these disorders for 5 generations. Dr. Chen's grandfather was particularly gifted. When he died recently the funeral was 14 days long and over 20000 people attended. Dignitaries from around the country attended." and yet there is no information on the Chen's to be found online and those I spoke with at University of Hong Kong had not heard of them.

Furthermore, it is completely fair to be concerned about what medicines you are putting into your body (both chinese AND western) as it is YOUR body and most people don't feel comfortable taking "secret medicines". This is not syaing they do not work, and again, I have a large amount of hope that they do and have no side effects, but I would still like to know what is is I am taking (as I am sure many others would as well). It has been pointed out many times that they would lose their business if they gave away what ingredients they use, in that case why not simply get a patent or copyright so that they can safely inform their patients what it is they use.

I, and I am sure others, am not giving up on this process or saying "no" yet, we are simply asking questions so that we are as imformed about this process as possible, as any responsible patient would do. I just wish we could go about trying to become informed without being scolded for not going in with blind faith. I think that's fair to ask.

Please read the earlier posts. The term "bashing" would be an understatement. In one post he or she tells us to open our eyes as if we are a bunch of idiots. They are not going to provide the details to their proprietary process. Case closed. The procedure did not work for him or her. State your case and move on.

Cbello you have my email, email me if you really want more info and specifics but I am not posting names and dates of myself or others on a public forum.....Pleas understand! my email is there, pass it along to Dr Chen if you feel this strongly. She or he as the one I met was a female is more than welcome to contact me. Dr Chen here in Vancouver has my email as she just forwarded the info I posted to me several days ago.

Aside from names and dates what more info would you like, I will answer anything you want. I dont understand why you are so angry, I thought this forum was to share our experiences good or bad so others may learn from them and we may help others.

If you are so adimant about helping and proving that the clinc is good and works then please post some new info on it for us to see. Can you show one affiliate of theirs that reconizes them, can you show me any case studies be it in china or in north america, can you show me anything that indicates it is reconized and credible.
I fail to understand why a family this reconized in china and a funerall blah blah blah long and such has no information on the internet. neither the internet nor the Chen's poped up yesterday so why is there no information.
If they were this reconized why nothing in china either.

I am done arguing on here but will continue to post my findings so others can make the most informed decision possible which is all I wish I had done (I probably still would have tried though)

I will post a better update once I have the surgery and scope work and inform as to what was done what was found and what the outcome was.

CBELLO please if you have more info please post it if you have more questions plese contact me via email

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 so the thread can be used for what it was meant for.

Good luck to everyone and remeber always ask questions and then question the answers!!!!!

I think we all need to chill out a bit and that includes me. This is taking way too much time and we are losing focus on what matters most - getting better. I have said my piece and will no longer be responding to the specifics of this issue as we have been doing for the past week or so. The people on this forum have enough to go on to make a decision for our against the treatment.

As for finding out about the Chen process I would like to suggest that you contact your local Chinese consulate office. I find it challenging enough to navigate the internet in the English so I can only imagine what it must be llike surfing the internet for Chinese sites and info. Very few Chinese sites have been translated to English so I don't know what keywords to put into the search box. In any event, the Chinese are well on their way to becoming the world's next super power as the declining West phases out and a new one phases in. We'll all end up having to learn Chinese like the rest of the world had to learn English when we were the top dogs.

Let's move on. I am sure we all have better things to do with our time.

It's helping others in whatever way possible, at every turn that makes us human.

Take care and get better.

Cbello,
Cool down. This forum is becoming a win-loose jury. no need to compete. The Vancouver person is more than right to be concerned about his (or her) case. My case was a success. However, I totally understand the despair of treatments that do not on you. we all have to hear different stories and possible scenarios. I find your postings a bit extreme and rude to other people with different stories. Bulling others is not acceptable. Perhaps u have been in this forum for too long acting as their lawyers. Take a break.

I'm good. I've moved on.

I agree. CBello, you shared your story already. Yours was good. We are all happy for you. You said ALL you needed to say. Let others share their cases, concerns.