I have had a long history of pain med abuse but oddly enough the two withdrawals I went through were for a synthetic opioid (Tramadol) and a substance/drug that acts just like an opiate but isn't one (Tianeptine).
I was taking massive amounts of tramadol from 2007-2009, 250mg three times a day every day during those years. I finally decided enough was enough and quit cold turkey. I went through pure hell back then and used the internet to talk to others and use all of the remedies that were known at that time (vitamins, st john's wort, baths, etc.). These 'solutions' did very little and I was in a living hell every day for a good two weeks. We all know what that entails so there's no point in going over the details.
Fast forward to a couple months ago and I found this wonderful substance called Tianeptine. It's not scheduled nor marketed here in the US despite it being very effective for depression and it's effects are nearly identical to a good dose of hydrocodone or oxycontin. Since it's not regulated in the US, I was able to buy it on a certain popular auction website as well as through some online US vendors. Granted, they sell it as 'not for human consumption' but they know very well that their buyers are buying it to take it.
The dosage is only 12.5mg but if you take 80-125mg or more you get a fantastic opiate high but it only lasts for a couple of hours as it's halflife is very short (about two hours). I quickly picked up a habit of taking 100mg doses 3-4x each day for two straight months. I quickly realized I was becoming addicted to it and decided when I ran out I would quit it for good.
Just 3-4 hours after my last dose was last Sunday afternoon and I was already starting to have withdrawals. I expected to feel a bit tired and have minor cravings for maybe a day or two but nothing more. I was in for one hell of a surprise though. The rest of the day it was like my tramadol withdrawal all over again. I felt like I had the flu, was sore all over, felt incredibly depressed and tired, couldn't get comfortable, nose was running, etc. and so on. Then night came. I couldn't fall asleep at all and within literally 5 seconds of changing positions in bed I was immediately uncofortable and rolling over again. No matter that I did, I couldn't get comfortable or fall asleep. This constant tossing and turning went on all night for 8-9 hours until I had to go to work.
I still felt like absolute garbage and couldn't even function at work. I was constantly running to the bathroom the previous night with the runs and I was still having that problem at work too. I went home sick after about 4 hours that felt like an eternity. I went home where I continued to relive the hell I went through from tramadol withdrawal a few years ago. That night (Monday evening) it was the same thing trying to sleep-- It simply didn't happen! I was so miserable it brought me to tears and extreme anger at feeling like c**p, not being able to get comfortable for more than a few seconds, having extreme RLS and not being able to get to sleep.
Tuesday morning I had to give up and get ready for work early in the morning. I felt just as bad as I had the previous day on Monday but I forced myself to tough out the day despite being horribly unproductive and each minute feeling like an hour. When I got home from work I decided to look up opiate withdrawal on the internet to see if there was any new home remedies since my last trip through this hell. I was shocked to find out that high doses of Imodium AD were all I really needed to be symptom-free from withdrawal. I immediately got in my car and drove to Walmart to stock up. When I got home I immediately took 4 of the pills. About three hours later it was time for bed so I took another 4 along with my usual Zantac, melatonin and doxylamine (I've taken these three things every night at bedtime for many years so this wasn't out of the ordinary).
I laid in bed watching my usual 30 or so minutes of TV until I shut it off and try to fall asleep. I was feeling a little bit better since taking all that Imodium but thought it could have been placebo so I was skeptical about it working and me being able to sleep for the first time in 72 hours. To my surprise, I was able to get comfortable right away, stay comfortable and fall asleep easy. I didn't have to be to work until the afternoon so I was able to try and sleep in. I woke up two times in the night to go to the bathroom but was able to quickly fall back asleep. Unfortunately I wasn't able to sleep any later than 7am but that did give me a full 8 hours of sleep so I was very pleased.
That morning on Wednesday I took another 4 Imodium followed by breakfast. I was feeling great and withdrawal-free for the most part. I didn't feel 100% normal but I was probably about 80-85% and felt that the reason was because I was still sleep deprived from only slept once in the previous three nights. I swallowed another 4 Imodium pills before heading out the door to work and was able to work at about 80-85% of my potential and was in a pretty good mood as well, which was 1,000 times better than how I had felt in previous days before finding out about Imodium!
I got off work really late and took another 4 Imodium and went to bed. I slept another 8 hours but was unable to get any more than that despite today being my day off. I got curious about some of the other supplements for withdrawal such as the Tagamet HB and Aleve. Although I have been feeling just fine from the Imodium alone, I decided to go out and buy some of these other OTC meds to see if they help. When I got home this afternoon from buying them I decided to take some Tagamet and Aleve followed by 4 more Imodium pills a few minutes later. I think they do indeed help the withdrawals even more and so it must be true that they aid in the Imodium's action in your body/brain. I can and will conclude that, in my case anyway, they are unnecessary as the Imodium itself is definitely enough. That being said, if you feel you really, truly need that additional little boost to overcome your withdrawals then by all means go out and buy some generic Aleve and Tagamet as well because I can confirm that they do help a little bit more! I would not say that I am 'high' or 'buzzed' off the combined feeling of these meds but I am definitely in a happier mood, withdrawal-free and with a bit of energy!
I know there are already 100s, if not 1000s of documented cases on the internet about these OTC medications being extremely effective for opiate withdrawal. I couldn't help but to include my story as well but I feel it's even more important for me to help spread the information that this "opiate withdrawal cure" also works for addictions to "opiate-like" substances as well, such as for tramadol and tianeptine! I sincerely hope my post helps out all opiate and opiate-like addictions out there that are giving people trouble in their withdrawal. It is absolutely crazy that these simple, common OTC drugs are so cheap and effective at overcoming your addiction!
In the two days I've been using Imodium (along with today's added drugs of Tagamet and Aleve) I have not had a bowel movement yet. That may be TMI but I feel it's important to give as much information as possible. I am not too concerned yet as I was only having a bowel movement a couple times a week while in my tianeptine addiction the past couple of months. Because my recent addiction was relatively short-term at just two months and the abuse wasn't crazy-insane, I am planning on tapering out my Imodium use over the next 2-3 days. I will update this post with any progress or further information I feel necessary to share. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!
Here's another breakdown of what you need to overcome your withdrawal:
Imodium AD -- Loperamide 2mg (get the Walmart or other generic brand). Take 4-6 at a time and if after an hour or two it's not enough then take another 4-6 until you find your right dose. When you find your right dose you'll know because 80-90% of your withdrawal symptoms will be gone!
Tagamet HB -- Cimetidine 200mg (get the Walmart or other generic brand). Take 1-2 about 30 minutes before you take your Imodium dose. Remember that you don't have to take this as well as Imodium itself is truly good enough but if you feel you need a little more than definitely invest in some of this as well.
Aleve -- Naproxen Sodium 220mg (get the Walmart or other generic brand). Take 1-2 about 30 minutes before you take your Imodium dose. Remember that you don't have to take this as well as Imodium itself is truly good enough but if you feel you need a little more than definitely invest in some of this as well.
If you mix 2 cups of non sugared apple sauce with one cup of All Bran.. and keep it in the fridge.. you can take it how ever it works best for you and stay regular while you are on the opiates or withdrawing using the immodium.. it helps.
Thank you for the most recent and only info I can find up to date! I had been reading threads about people trying this and different things but, those threads were like 5 to 10 years old...so, I thought maybe it did not work, because if it had caught on, there would have been a shortage of these things and that would have made the news, meaning down the road, like now, it would be illegal to buy such things because the government makes too much money off addicts. (That is my general thinking.) But, kudos to you for ALL THE FACTS, and no, not TMI, because that had crossed my mind also! I am like 2 days trying this with one thing and wondering ummm, hmm. Yeah, I might better layoff the lopermide a bit, just because Elvis comes to mind. I am a big Elvis fan, and I remember when he died, (the year I was born, so I do not really remember:p) I had read that he had been using, and his stomach was impacted. Just sounds really bad, I guess, so, another thought comes to mind and maybe that's what happened to all the ones who wrote the old threads...too much lopermide, I know I am spelling this wrong,..but not even sure this reply will even go up here because I am not registered on here. anyway, THANKS AGAIN FOR THE POST!!, Man, I hope this goes up because it sure is long, and I ain't typing this again, heck, I wont even remember what I said 5 seconds from now. Any way just dreading w/d and trying to find a better way. been on and off since 2001. 33
Hey everyone, this is the original poster of the topic and thread here!
I am happy my story has helped others. You can also add some quinine to the mix of your daily pills to overcome withdrawal but getting ahold of it is hard to do. Search eBay for "Quinine Pills" where you can find some people who sell powdered capsules containing a good dose of it. Simply buying tonic water containing quinine isn't enough as it doesn't contain enough. The "Hylands" brand of meds that contain quinine also don't have enough. Search eBay for the shredded capsules.
It says Mr. Drake, an MD/doctor, has replied/answered my post and others like it with one of his own a couple months ago. I checked out that link on the page and indeed he does discuss some things I did not mention that I have used and do assist as well:
B12 Complex: Taking a B12 Complex vitamin is something I tried back then and it did help but compared to the Tagamet/Aleve/Imodium combo it did little. Still yet, I take a B12 Complex "stress" formulation that comes in a glass jar from Amazon. The pills are huge but you can find all sorts of B12 Complex vitamins everywhere, even in all local drug stores and supermarkets.
Quinine: As stated above, quinine is a great helper for the leg cramps and helping loperamide to cross the blood-brain barrier and making your Tagamet/Imodium/Aleve daily doses more effective. Recent studies state quinine isn't really as effective for leg cramps as was once believed years ago. Well, I still find it helpful for that but also for the other symptoms of opiate withdrawal when taken with the other rememdies I've already mentioned. Search eBay for sellers who sell encapsulated ground bark containing a good dose of quinine.
Magnesium/Vitamin C: These two supplements can help quite a bit as well but you won't 'feel' their effectiveness like the other substances here. Internally they assist your body with recovery in many aspects and although not necessary for withdrawal symptoms they do help. I take both daily these days to maintain my body's health.
Fish Oil: Again, same as above. I buy and take daily what reports have suggested is one of (if not the number one) best fish oil supplement and it's made by Kirkland Signature (Costco's in-house brand). I buy mine off Amazon since we don't have Costco stores where I live but the price is still great!
Warm/hot baths, even if your bathtub is small, just laying down in them soaking for awhile does feel good and help to get rid of discomfort and pain.
Exercise: As the good doctor states, exercising does more than just get your body in shape and help it to become or maintain its health. It releases endorphins as he states and greatly helps out mood and stress in individuals who have issues with both. Trust me, I'm one who struggles with both. Just like everything else above that I've now added to the list of things to take and try, it's not as necessary as the Tagamet/Aleve/Imodium/Quinine combo but does help. Find something you enjoy doing or exercise will be a struggle and you won't get as much out of it, both physically and mentally. For myself I enjoy cycling but can't stand running or jogging. So I go out on bicycle rides regularly. While being a great cradio workout it's also very fun for me and it definitely helps aleviate stress and depression. Eating healthy is much the same.
Word of Caution
Taking massive doses of Imodium, especially over a long period of time, as well as other pills not intended to be taken on a daily basis for long periods of time, is dangerous. While myself and many others have successfully used the combo of pills described by myself to overcome withdrawal symptoms of opiates and opiate-like withdrawals from other substances, and in my own research deaths or major medical issues seem incredibly rare, one cannot deny the danger factor.
Once you find your right dose of Imodium for the combo of pills to be symptom-free in your withdrawal, after a couple of days I strongly suggest starting to taper down the amount you take and the same goes for all the other pills (aside from the vitamins). Some people find their right dose of Imodium to be as high as 25-50+ at a time. For myself I recall it being around 8-16 at a time but was able to taper down a couple of pills every few days then down to not taking any Tagamet/Aleve/Imodium at all within about 10-14 days. Everyone is different and some may need to do it longer but I can't emphasize enough the need to use caution.
I'm not a doctor and everything I've stated is stated elsewhere on the net. No matter how good I may think my advice is, there truly is no substitute for good, professional treatment and care. Some can't afford this type of care and/or aren't able to for personal reasons (career, shame, etc.). While my post and this follow-up reply is intended on only helping people, the information I give could potentially result in bad things happening to some people. Research everything I give advice on as much as possible so as to be as safe as possible if you decide to partake in my remedy/remedies.
Thank you all to have replied and although I don't visit this thread often I do from time to time to see if I have helped others. Again, thank you to those who have replied stating this has helped!
Also, I registered under a random email name generated for an email website/service I won't use unless I need to. If you would like to personally get in touch with me you now can since I've registered to this website. However, please post a reply letting me know you've sent me a PM or an email because, again, I won't be checking either regularly. I will, however, get any and all replies to this thread sent to my real email I use on a daily basis. Thanks again & good luck to all who are going through their issues!
I didn't really have major issues from what I can recall. I came off the loperamide rather easy. Of all things I suggest be taken to overcome the withdrawal the only one that can cause it's own withdrawal is the massive doses of loperamide but I will say I consider those symptoms of coming off it to be very weak and easily overcome within a few days or week, tops. Everyone's different and YMMV, however.
I could also suggest some more things when it comes to sleep. Quinine is definitely a great help for RLS if you have those symptoms and nothing else is helping and, as suggested, look for Cinchona bark capsules on eBay which contain a high amount of quinine.
I take and have been taking multiple OTC meds/supplements for sleep for years. Not a great idea, sure, but I don't have any reason to believe I would have trouble ceasing use to still get sleep. I work long, stressful days and often times I have to be right back at work in 7-9 hours from the time I walk in the door and I'm very big on getting my 7-8 hours of sleep a night so waiting a few hours to naturally wind down simply isn't an option.
Here's what I take for sleep regularly:
- Melatonin (specically "Melatonin Ultra" which you can find on Amazon). Avoid anything less than 2-3mg, yes milligrams. Many melatonin supplements, such as those found at Walmart and other supermarkets contain micrograms. IME, anything less than a few milligrams is basically non-effective. I take 1-2 of these "Melatonin Ultra" tablets each night and they also contain other goodies such as GABA, valerian root (more on that later), l-theanine, etc. These other ingredients are in such small amounts they don't do much but they certain do help.
- Doxylamine Succinate: The most common OTC 'drug' or medication is a wide variety of products containing diphenhydramine hydrochloride. This is the same thing as Benedryl, it's only active ingredient and at the same dosage actually (25-50mg per pill). It is also the "PM" part of "Tylenol PM" among many other branded OTC sleep aids. Well, for me, diphenhydramine doesn't help me sleep. it makes me drowsy but unable to fall asleep. There's nothing worse. So, for me, I take the other OTC antihistamine that's available as a sleep aid though harder to find and that is doxylamine succinate. You can buy generics on Amazon or in supermarkets. Walmart's generic "Equate" brand makes doxylamine tabs but they are often sold out, probably due to their higher effectiveness over diphenhydramine. Doxylamine was originally the original formula of Unisom though now you will find 90% of all Unisom products to contain diphenhydramine. I love doxylamine and dislike diphenhydramine. I take 1-2 tabs/night depending on how much I feel I need.
- Valerian Root Extract: I do not take this every night, just sometimes. Non-extracts are basically worthless IMO and "Nature's Way" makes great extracts of both this and loads of other herbal supplements. Their 'extract' versions of everything they produce are in the purple jars, not the green jars, so be aware of that. This supplement does not help me sleep or stay asleep really but it guarantees I will have wild, vivid dreams any night I take them and have great recall on what they were the following day. Sometimes I want and desire this but other times I don't so I only take this supplement once or twice a week.
- Ashwaghanda Extract: Again, I love extracts. Look for at least 2.5% withanolides or, the more expensive and hard to find 5% extracts. There are many vendors who sell their own capped ashwaghanda powder on sites like eBay but if you want to pay more go buy a branded bottle on Amazon or elsewhere. It helps immensely in getting me to sleep quickly and deeply. I take 1 capsule each night from an eBay vendor who sells 2.5% extract capsules very cheaply. Same goes for the cinchona bark capsules for quinine-- I get them from the same eBay vendor. Everything else I buy generics from Amazon except the name-brand "Melatonin Ultra" product. Ashwaghanda is taken for general depression and mood enhancement by many people during the day as well. I prefer to only use it as a sleep aid though, personally.
There is much else in the world of drugs and supplements I have a lot of experience and knowledge with but for the purposes of sleep and opiate withdrawal I don't think anything I haven't mentioned is effective enough in my own experiences to mention, really. Perhaps there are some borderline useful substances in my own opinion, such as rhodiola rosea extract, for example. I just tried to list and describe that which I find the absolute most effective, though, to keep things simple and easy for everyone. Stay safe and read up as much as possible on anything and everything you put into your body!
holy cow! got accidentally become addicted to Tianemptine after using using so much liquid, I tried in powder form. And boy oh boy does your tolerance increase! I, too , decided i was time to stop, being a recovering alcoholic.I was becoming just a shell of a person with a husnband and 5 year old daughter. It has been the LONGEST 3 days ever. I have tried 10mg of valium and that seem stop the physical body aches and helps only for a brief second Another friend of mine has given me 2 pin relievers. But the RLS and tossing a turning is out of this world.! I have detoxed from a slue of drugs and alcohol being the worst and this is by FAR the worst with drawl I have ever had! I really appreciate your honesty about the ammonium Ad. I ran out to but 4 packages and hope i get a good night sleep!!!!! thanks again
OMG!!! THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH FOR THIS. I was doing the same thing and had the same f*****g rls and everything from tianeptine abuse. I'm heading out to get some imodium right now. I love you, no homo or I don't even give a f**k THank YOUUUU
i took a gram a day of tianeptine for a while.
1 small piece of suboxone completely stopped the tianeptine withdrawls for me and then it was over. the half life of buprenorphine is 1-3 days so it got me over it just fine. clonidine kinda helps also.
cimetadine and aleve are a joke for serious withdrawls.
In regards to the other recent replies, whether something does or doesn't work for you, I hope you overcome your addictions and withdrawals regardless! Sobriety is a great thing!