bluedog wrote:
So I'm gonna answer a few peoples questions in this post starting with the one quoted above. Sorry for any spelling errors, I'm writing this on my phone while I wait for laundry to finish. And although I do have a fair amount (ok a lot, or at least a lot more that I probably should have :P) of experience with all of the substances in question here remember that I did not spend 6 years of my life becoming a doctor so if something seems off, please feel free to correct me! Either you'll be right and people will be better informed, or wrong in which case ill probably rub it in your face forever but either way everyone wins.
To start it is important to understand exactly what suboxone is in order to know how it will affect the drugs you take. Most people are unaware that suboxone is in fact a combination of two drugs in one pill/dose. Suboxone is a combination of the drugs buprenorphine and naloxone, in a ratio of about 4:1 bupe to nal. Bupe is an extremely powerful synthetic opiod and does several things. The bupe helps keep people who are taking subs from experiencing the majority of widrawal symptoms because it is an opiate itself, however one that has been found to work on the opiate receports differently from h, percs, purple drank you name it. Google this if you want, its not really important for answering these questions. Keeping in mind that it is an opiate however, it is possible to feels some opiate like effects when taking it. However an individuals opiate tolerance plays a major role in the effects they feel such that someone with no tolerance at all could easily become almost uncomfortably loaded off of as little as 2mg. Whereas it is not uncommon for addicts in recovery to need more than 16mg or more a day just to keep their withdrawals manageable.
The other compound in suboxone, naloxone is responsible for the rest of the drugs effects. Naloxone by itself is actually used in hospitals and elsewhere to treat, and actually reverse opiate overdoses. Without getting too sciency on everyone (the actual processes are more complex, again see google) naloxone will bind to the opiate receptors in the brain and it binds to then so well that it will basically "kick out" almost any opiate that is occupying that receptor, heroin included, and is very hard to "kick out" itself. By occupying the receptor sites (it will bind to/those that the bupe doesn't) it does two key things: it "tricks" the receports into telling the brain that they are occupied which can help reduce ones desire to use, and it also prevents other opiates from binding to those sites, which I will talk about later. These effects usually last 48 hours or longer, due to either an extremely long half life or their astounding binding abilities though I can't actually remember which of those it is atm (could be both too? Google it :P). There are only two opiates I know of that can bind better than naloxone, those being buprenorphine (no suprise there) and fentanyl.
So now to relate this back to all of the unanswered questions on this page. Cocaine does not affect the opiate receptors and will therefore not interfere with suboxone use in treatment. The two different systems mentioned above are basically just that: coke gets you high one way and opiates another, and so even with the opiate rout closed off the systems in your brain which use cocaine are left unaffected. SWIM was able to use coke regularly while on suboxone and experienced no dimished effects from either.
To our Croatian friend and everyone else wondering about the interactions between heroin and suboxone there are several things I can tell you. First the reason it is recommended that you wait several days from your last dose of h until your first dose of sub, and why people who do not wait describe feeling like the sub made their withdrawals come on far more rapidly is because of the naloxone in the suboxone displacing the dopamine/other endorphin releasing heroin molocules from the opiate receptors and replacing them with the inert naloxone. This process of heroin leaving on its own would usually take 2-3 days, and be much more gradual than 2-3 hours and is the main reason why people recommend waiting so long to start suboxone; basically a comfort issue as the effectiveness of the suboxone does not really change.
As far as taking heroin while on suboxone you might as well save your money and send it to me ;). You will feel something on the range of nothing to absolutely nothing from the h due to the naloxone and buprenorphine occupying the receptor sites in your brain. If you take suboxone regularly then you would have to wait 2-3 days at least before being able to feel the effects of other opiates, so taking suboxone in the morning would make taking heroin in the evening pointless, and would serve only to increase your tolerance more as your body will still have to metabolize all of the heroin too. SWIM would recommend that if a person took suboxone too soon after doing h and was experiencing terrible withdrawals that instead of trying to take more heroin to end the withdrawals that they instead take more suboxone because of the buprenorphine in the suboxone. There is more bupe in the subs than naloxone, and the bupe can bind almost as well while in the presence of naloxone in the brain so short of finding somen medical grade fentanyl this would be the best/easiest way to lessen ones withdrawal symptoms in SWIM's opinion at least. By using more sub instead of going back to simply using you would also be that much closer to breaking the cycle and getting off of opiates entirely :D.
My laundry is done and so I must go now but I'm following this thread so if anyone has further questions on the topic post them here and ill reply when I can.
Good luck and peace be the journey
The General
.Guest wrote:
Suboxone blocks the opiate receptors in the brain making Heroin useless. But, you have to be in FULL detox from H before you take your first dose. Also, Cocaine does not make it so the suboxone doesn't work. Its two different systems. If you are on H, get help before its too late.
So youer' saying that cocaine doesn't make it work? What do you mean by two different systems? I don't understand what that means. Can you explain?
So I'm gonna answer a few peoples questions in this post starting with the one quoted above. Sorry for any spelling errors, I'm writing this on my phone while I wait for laundry to finish. And although I do have a fair amount (ok a lot, or at least a lot more that I probably should have :P) of experience with all of the substances in question here remember that I did not spend 6 years of my life becoming a doctor so if something seems off, please feel free to correct me! Either you'll be right and people will be better informed, or wrong in which case ill probably rub it in your face forever but either way everyone wins.
To start it is important to understand exactly what suboxone is in order to know how it will affect the drugs you take. Most people are unaware that suboxone is in fact a combination of two drugs in one pill/dose. Suboxone is a combination of the drugs buprenorphine and naloxone, in a ratio of about 4:1 bupe to nal. Bupe is an extremely powerful synthetic opiod and does several things. The bupe helps keep people who are taking subs from experiencing the majority of widrawal symptoms because it is an opiate itself, however one that has been found to work on the opiate receports differently from h, percs, purple drank you name it. Google this if you want, its not really important for answering these questions. Keeping in mind that it is an opiate however, it is possible to feels some opiate like effects when taking it. However an individuals opiate tolerance plays a major role in the effects they feel such that someone with no tolerance at all could easily become almost uncomfortably loaded off of as little as 2mg. Whereas it is not uncommon for addicts in recovery to need more than 16mg or more a day just to keep their withdrawals manageable.
The other compound in suboxone, naloxone is responsible for the rest of the drugs effects. Naloxone by itself is actually used in hospitals and elsewhere to treat, and actually reverse opiate overdoses. Without getting too sciency on everyone (the actual processes are more complex, again see google) naloxone will bind to the opiate receptors in the brain and it binds to then so well that it will basically "kick out" almost any opiate that is occupying that receptor, heroin included, and is very hard to "kick out" itself. By occupying the receptor sites (it will bind to/those that the bupe doesn't) it does two key things: it "tricks" the receports into telling the brain that they are occupied which can help reduce ones desire to use, and it also prevents other opiates from binding to those sites, which I will talk about later. These effects usually last 48 hours or longer, due to either an extremely long half life or their astounding binding abilities though I can't actually remember which of those it is atm (could be both too? Google it :P). There are only two opiates I know of that can bind better than naloxone, those being buprenorphine (no suprise there) and fentanyl.
So now to relate this back to all of the unanswered questions on this page. Cocaine does not affect the opiate receptors and will therefore not interfere with suboxone use in treatment. The two different systems mentioned above are basically just that: coke gets you high one way and opiates another, and so even with the opiate rout closed off the systems in your brain which use cocaine are left unaffected. SWIM was able to use coke regularly while on suboxone and experienced no dimished effects from either.
To our Croatian friend and everyone else wondering about the interactions between heroin and suboxone there are several things I can tell you. First the reason it is recommended that you wait several days from your last dose of h until your first dose of sub, and why people who do not wait describe feeling like the sub made their withdrawals come on far more rapidly is because of the naloxone in the suboxone displacing the dopamine/other endorphin releasing heroin molocules from the opiate receptors and replacing them with the inert naloxone. This process of heroin leaving on its own would usually take 2-3 days, and be much more gradual than 2-3 hours and is the main reason why people recommend waiting so long to start suboxone; basically a comfort issue as the effectiveness of the suboxone does not really change.
As far as taking heroin while on suboxone you might as well save your money and send it to me ;). You will feel something on the range of nothing to absolutely nothing from the h due to the naloxone and buprenorphine occupying the receptor sites in your brain. If you take suboxone regularly then you would have to wait 2-3 days at least before being able to feel the effects of other opiates, so taking suboxone in the morning would make taking heroin in the evening pointless, and would serve only to increase your tolerance more as your body will still have to metabolize all of the heroin too. SWIM would recommend that if a person took suboxone too soon after doing h and was experiencing terrible withdrawals that instead of trying to take more heroin to end the withdrawals that they instead take more suboxone because of the buprenorphine in the suboxone. There is more bupe in the subs than naloxone, and the bupe can bind almost as well while in the presence of naloxone in the brain so short of finding somen medical grade fentanyl this would be the best/easiest way to lessen ones withdrawal symptoms in SWIM's opinion at least. By using more sub instead of going back to simply using you would also be that much closer to breaking the cycle and getting off of opiates entirely :D.
My laundry is done and so I must go now but I'm following this thread so if anyone has further questions on the topic post them here and ill reply when I can.
Good luck and peace be the journey
The General
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I've been smoking h for between 5 and 6 months. Needless to say it was incredibly strong sh*t. 25$ a point stuff. Now i have never shot, i got to the point where i was consistently using 2 or more grams a day for more then 2 months at a time. I tried to quit twice during that period, and lasted 4 days the first go, and about 11 or so the second. Each time gradually sliding at the end, starting small and going back up to a full 2g a day, by at least 3 or 4 days after using again. Each time i used suboxone, usually around 12 hours last time i smoked. There were times though that i would take suboxone during the day, and then smoke at night and a half gram or so later i was noddin. This confused me because i was under the impression that there was NO way you could get high while having suboxone in your system. Secondly, i have always gone into withdrawals after taking that first dose. I take a quarter bar of xanax and i feel better. But i guess i wanted to know how long it usually takes to withdrawal using suboxone before you begin to feel strong again, and how long should it take you to ween yourself off the suboxone. And are there any other general tips you could give one to stay straight? I'm going on my 3rd time and going to be going to some type of treatment here soon, so i hope to make this my last time.
Thanks a lot all.
RM
Thanks a lot all.
RM
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There is only one way around using suboxone and smack (my best advice though is to just avoid the H altogether). If you have been using H and you need to start using suboxone, make it a small dose of suboxone (2-4mg) however before taking it make sure you take some valium or xanax at least 30 mins before hand. If your normal dose of suboxone is up around 16-24mg then only take 2-4mg. If your due to take your dose at the chemist then swallow the suboxone and dont let if dissolve under your tongue because it is largely intactive orally (hence why you take it by placing it under your tongue). If you don't get ready for the most crappy withdrawals you have ever had. This advice is only if you are stupid enough to mix the two because they don't go hand in hand. Suboxone is a partial agonist/antagonist which means that will pull the H off your opiate receptors and replace it with suboxone(buprenorphine - the naloxone in suboxone is inactive orally and is just there to stop people shooting up suboxone). Thats why you need to be in withdrawals before starting treatment with suboxone. If you want to use H and be on some sort of therapy then convince your doctor to use methadone or even better just keep using until you are ready to quit. H is a hell of a mistress so take the opportunity to change your life because suboxone can give you your life back. Shooting over the top of suboxone is a waste of money. If you want to use H then go a day with no suboxone. I give this advice because there are going to be be people who want to use both. I dont condone mixing the two I simply offer the advice because I was stupid enough to try and use both and believe me it nearly cost me my job, my family and my life. Take the opportunity of suboxone to get your life back.
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i want to know something so i waited a couple hours i was hurting then i took my suboxon like an hour later i started to feeel with drawls bad the sub made it worste so i did another shot of herion i felt good for like 30 minutes then i started to with drawl i am felling a little better now. and when i did that shot there was no head change or any thing the sub blocked it but now i was wondering since the sub blocked the high can i still take the suboxon
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I have been taking Suboxone 10 mg per day and used a lil bit of H first day n a lil the next..now im in my 3rd and im not feeling any withdrawals, and im a heavy user...atleast 4G's per day continuously for 8 months before i started on suboxone n so far its going great...and compared to my previous times with suboxone, withdrawals did not hapen after takin suboxone for a few days as it cleans out the system and blocks any H going into the system, so its safe if u dont abuse it otherwise u may get addicted to both and then ur gonna be in a hell of a mess....best thing is that cravings are barely there...guess some of us, rather most of us take H when on suboxone for the heck of wanting to have a smoke not because of the cravings... I tried methadone detox also and for 2 days didnt use H when on Methadone and withdrawals didnt register at all as my dose was high enough to maintain my withdrawals...after few days used a lil bit of H and then didnt use H at all that day n the next day took Methadone n was on it and then repeated the cycle again the next day n then again on Methadone n continued Methadone for the 5th-6th day and didnt use any H during that time and my withdrawals were gone and i was feelin great...Now im on Suboxone 2 days n tried lil bit of H while on suboxone and now im my 3rd day and without H and im feelin fine, infat, i feel very refreshed and like i amnormal...After taking Suboxone for a few more days, it wud hae done the trick and i'll be feelnig fine....I have had previous experiences with Methadone, Subates, Subaxone, Morphine syrup and capsules and i shud say its going good with Suboxone...Good thing is that it also acts as a block so that even if u use H, you dont get sick and its not like back to square one and having to start over again on the suboxone, so long asu dont use H even if u have used it a cupla times before...just stay off theH n continure with the Suboxone and u shud be feelin great in a week...Dnt take more than needed amount of suboxone. ...hope this helps
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hi all
i wanted the doctor to read this and respond please! i am getting ready to leave the country for a couple of months and need to stop using H NOW.
this is my story-i have been working really hard and have tons of pain from lots of accidents and asked a friend if he had anything that would help...i wasnt sure what it was...but i found out it was H. i LOVE it-it makes me superwoman and i can do anything but the fact is i need to stop (its only been a few months since i first tried it-damn it!) anyway another friend went out on the streets and found me the 8 mg of subox. i got 6 of them but plan on getting 6 more this week so by sunday i can be done detoxing (i fly on sunday)
my questions are (cuz nothings real clear here with all types of different addicts and their personal experiences) this is mine.
i am doing about $60 worth a day (its whit and i know the content probably isnt very high of H) i have vicodin and valium...oh and ambien for the detox. how do i do the detox...WHEN should i stop the H and start the sobox? should i take anything else to help-ie the valium,vicodin or ambien?
i never thought i would go here with the H cuz the vicoden works and i actually had kicked that several months ago after taking and average of 1kmgs per day...i will keep using that but not everyday and never more than 1 norco a day.
the H takes away all my pain and i feel like superwoman but then the pain is back the next day :-(
I NEED help asap! I am so grateful for any good advice and would prefer a doctors response. remember i got the sobox off the street-its real...they get from hospital down the street and then sell for $10 on the street. i wish i could just call a doctor and have them prescibe it. i do NOT plan on taking more than a dozen sobox period! i am leaving where the source is next door so i wont have it around me and i will have 2 months to forget about it and relax!
namaste!
i wanted the doctor to read this and respond please! i am getting ready to leave the country for a couple of months and need to stop using H NOW.
this is my story-i have been working really hard and have tons of pain from lots of accidents and asked a friend if he had anything that would help...i wasnt sure what it was...but i found out it was H. i LOVE it-it makes me superwoman and i can do anything but the fact is i need to stop (its only been a few months since i first tried it-damn it!) anyway another friend went out on the streets and found me the 8 mg of subox. i got 6 of them but plan on getting 6 more this week so by sunday i can be done detoxing (i fly on sunday)
my questions are (cuz nothings real clear here with all types of different addicts and their personal experiences) this is mine.
i am doing about $60 worth a day (its whit and i know the content probably isnt very high of H) i have vicodin and valium...oh and ambien for the detox. how do i do the detox...WHEN should i stop the H and start the sobox? should i take anything else to help-ie the valium,vicodin or ambien?
i never thought i would go here with the H cuz the vicoden works and i actually had kicked that several months ago after taking and average of 1kmgs per day...i will keep using that but not everyday and never more than 1 norco a day.
the H takes away all my pain and i feel like superwoman but then the pain is back the next day :-(
I NEED help asap! I am so grateful for any good advice and would prefer a doctors response. remember i got the sobox off the street-its real...they get from hospital down the street and then sell for $10 on the street. i wish i could just call a doctor and have them prescibe it. i do NOT plan on taking more than a dozen sobox period! i am leaving where the source is next door so i wont have it around me and i will have 2 months to forget about it and relax!
namaste!
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O.K. everyone here is how Suboxone works....I was on Oxycodone 30mg for 6 years crushing them up and snorting them all, never shooting them up. The withdrawls are the worst and you just feel like you want to curl up in a ball and just die! You are sweating a lot, have the chills, going to the bathroom non-stop, throwing up, and CRAVING that opiate that you were on. The first time I tried Subutex and it threw me into immediate withdrawl symptoms which was a living hell! All I wanted to do was just die! Then the next time I tried Suboxone (the orange 8mg octagon shape pill) that you put under your tongue to dissolve it. I waited until I was in my 3rd day of withdrawl and it didn't work right away but after 2 days I felt much better. Well needless to say I fell off the band wagon and I started using again because it has a very powerful control affect on your mind and body. So this last time I found the answer! Suboxone 8mg now makes these new thin strips that you put under your tongue and you only have to wait 12 hours before you take a strip and place it under your tongue to dissolve! IT WORKED!!! NO WITHDRAWL SYMPTOMS AT ALL!!!! I was so happy because I could sleep and function like a normal human being. So my recommendation for all of you people out there like me or that are on "H" try the suboxone strips. Do your last final hooray get high session at night time and then go to sleep for 12 hours or until the chills of the withdrawl symptoms wake you up and then make sure you waited 12 full hours and place 2 strips for your 1st dose under your tongue on each side of your tongue making sure the strips do not touch each other and you should be good to go. But remember Suboxone does not help with the physcological part of it so you need to make sure you have a sponser or at least attend an NA meeting and you will learn that there are so many people out there that suffer from opiate addiction. It is so easy to get wrapped up in this cyclone of a mess! Just keep taking 1 strip evey 8 hours and you will be ok. Also ask God for help! He will help you get off this demon of a drug! I should know because I am clean now and I owe it all to Suboxone strips and the man above. Good luck to you all and stay strong. Don't let these drugs take control over your lives! You are better than that and you owe it to yourself and the people that love you the most to stay clean and healthy. Hope this helps and God bless....
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The BIG question I have which is NOT CLEARLY answered is "WHEN do I start taking sabox?" when i start feeling withdraw? AND i heard sebox pills get old...how FRESH do they have to be?
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bluedog wrote:
I stress this w/ great emphasize b/c I am a sniffer who also cuts their cocaine w/ lactose prior to ingesting, so the intensity for other will increase. B/c Suboxone has Narcon in it which is similar to an upper the cocaine clashes w/it & gives off the effects of straight speed once it hits. It goes straight to the heart & the next thing u know u have chest pains. If & when u cough, u feel the sensation throughout you upper body, arms & head. The heroin will not balance it out & before you realize it, you've ingested several bags too many of that too which makes you sick in its own way. So know your nausas, vomiting, when the explosion goes off in your head & you start sweating profusely. Combine all of these symptoms together & happening all at once of which the only control you have is trying to keep your body from falling apart & then throw in a reaction of fecal matter on top. It happened to me & b/c the addict in me said it was just a one time thing being the first time, I tried it again a few weeks later. Imagine what I described being twice as bad /b/c your bodies muscles weaken especially the heart & does NOt bounce back so easily. The caution & fatality warnings are very true, I am in the process of testing by a cardiologist b/c (Being someone who has never had heart problems) my primary physician did an EKG & it showed that somewhere during the course of my addiction , greed,& stupidity, meeting up & convincing my that "I Got This" I was rewarded w/ a mild heartache that I wasn't aware of but left me w/ the a reward for my efforts Of frequent symptoms as as reminder. Oh, just so none of you so called hard core users maybe thinking that person propably was weak or didn't use drugs long etc. Not only have I been getting high for over 25 yrs, I am a poly substance abuser, who b/c I have Bipolar Type 1 ( diagnosed long before started using) use to chew as many as 10- 2mg- xanax per day & nobody would ever know it b/c it stopped working after awhile. As such, I could venture to say I have the tolerance of a Horse! I consider myself blessed to have made it through that experience, if you think you're lucky go ahead but consider this. It just may not be the day!
Guest wrote:
does cocaine injection effect the suboxone? I heard it causes you to get withdrawls or makes the suboxone stop working.
Absolutely it does. Cocaine, heroin, crack, and virtually any painkiller can cause suboxone to stop working properly if i'm not mistaken. That's what my understanding is. Can anyone confirm this? That's what I have heard.
I stress this w/ great emphasize b/c I am a sniffer who also cuts their cocaine w/ lactose prior to ingesting, so the intensity for other will increase. B/c Suboxone has Narcon in it which is similar to an upper the cocaine clashes w/it & gives off the effects of straight speed once it hits. It goes straight to the heart & the next thing u know u have chest pains. If & when u cough, u feel the sensation throughout you upper body, arms & head. The heroin will not balance it out & before you realize it, you've ingested several bags too many of that too which makes you sick in its own way. So know your nausas, vomiting, when the explosion goes off in your head & you start sweating profusely. Combine all of these symptoms together & happening all at once of which the only control you have is trying to keep your body from falling apart & then throw in a reaction of fecal matter on top. It happened to me & b/c the addict in me said it was just a one time thing being the first time, I tried it again a few weeks later. Imagine what I described being twice as bad /b/c your bodies muscles weaken especially the heart & does NOt bounce back so easily. The caution & fatality warnings are very true, I am in the process of testing by a cardiologist b/c (Being someone who has never had heart problems) my primary physician did an EKG & it showed that somewhere during the course of my addiction , greed,& stupidity, meeting up & convincing my that "I Got This" I was rewarded w/ a mild heartache that I wasn't aware of but left me w/ the a reward for my efforts Of frequent symptoms as as reminder. Oh, just so none of you so called hard core users maybe thinking that person propably was weak or didn't use drugs long etc. Not only have I been getting high for over 25 yrs, I am a poly substance abuser, who b/c I have Bipolar Type 1 ( diagnosed long before started using) use to chew as many as 10- 2mg- xanax per day & nobody would ever know it b/c it stopped working after awhile. As such, I could venture to say I have the tolerance of a Horse! I consider myself blessed to have made it through that experience, if you think you're lucky go ahead but consider this. It just may not be the day!
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Im on 4mg of beup have been for 3yrs..my last dose was 7am today..
i wack 80 of oxys n feel it da full affect but
i was just wondering if someone could tell me if i had a wack of h now will i feel it???
i wack 80 of oxys n feel it da full affect but
i was just wondering if someone could tell me if i had a wack of h now will i feel it???
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Your first problem is fear! If you haven't had any withdrawal symptoms, good for you leave it alone & call it a day! As far as the next dose, why not wait until &/or if you begin to have symptoms before taking the next dose this way you don't become as dependant on the suboxone either. I would take one w/ me to work, however, just in case. Often you find if you keep busy & are not focused on the fear of "what if" you'll find yourself gonig long periods w/o the drug or symptoms of withdrawal.
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Quote:
people come onto this site for concerns regarding help with their substance abuse problem. this is not the place to encourage, make jokes and/or or ridicule anyone. If you appreciate that b/c you are not ready to deal w/ your problem, then you have NO business being here. If can appreciate and/or respect that b/c you are NOT an addict, then you have NO business being here!
make a suboxone foiley! thats how. ha. mix n a little baking soda add 1 drop of water n spread it out to a nice even paste and moke it! ooh it feels so good ha
people come onto this site for concerns regarding help with their substance abuse problem. this is not the place to encourage, make jokes and/or or ridicule anyone. If you appreciate that b/c you are not ready to deal w/ your problem, then you have NO business being here. If can appreciate and/or respect that b/c you are NOT an addict, then you have NO business being here!
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If you shoot cocaine on suboxone you get high. One has nothing to do with the other.
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