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This post is an extension of the

Suboxone withdrawals – need to know thread.

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Ok... little background... started casually abusing Hydro in high school... then by my sophmore year of college I was using somewhat regularly. Then I had a Rollerblading accident where I tore basically my whole ass cheek off. I mean it a was ROUGH (but better that than what's in front of your arse yeah?)... but I was in HIGH heaven! I was crazy wasted for like a month... of course I never really recovered from being that messed up. Eventually I ended up on Oxy and of course made the transition from there to heroin. Got off the smack but also got of Klonopin and Methadone at the same time.... so for like 6 months I felt like life was not worth living. I relapsed of course (the moral of that story is stay away from Methadone), on Hydro for like 8-9 months then Oxy and a little heroin for like 4-5 months after that. My friend died during a bust so I tapered down on Hydro until I was off the Oxy but I couldn't manage to stay off the Hydro for more than a few days... I mean come on I'm a junkie I have no willpower with this lol...

OK SO HERE'S WHERE I FINALLY DECIDED TO CHECK OUT SUB... I couldn't afford to blow my job so I got 48 hours sober and went to the clinic. Doc put me on 24/mgs a day (8mg three times a day) which is apparently WAYYYYYYY more than the rest of you guys! I was on that dose from March 2006 until say July of 2007.

Then I decided to drop 6mgs. Not really that bad. I mean I didn't feel awesome and it was just rough; not not getting burned alive and run over by a truck like heroin withdrawal. Better than coming off smack or injecting Oxy that's for sure! Maybe a little more like coming off Hydro. Achy, tired, runny nose, watery eyes (you know antihistimines help a lot with that) and that type of stuff.

Then recently I did a 2mg drop just so that I would be on two 8mg pills not 2 pills and that little 2mg chip... and Boy did I underestimate how much that was going to kick my ass! Since the last time wasn't that hard I was blown away when I felt suicidal, extremely depressed, and was having irrational thoughts about people hating me and stuff. It lasted I would say strongly for about 7-8 days and then by day 10 I felt worn out but ok. Trust me, it wasn't fun but STILL wasn't close to Oxy withdrawal! Then soon I was good old me again...

Now that was about errrr a month ago? And despite not wanting to have to come down, I have to, because I can't pay $600 a month for Sub (plus the damn doctor bill) so I've just had to make the jump. Started Thursday night... didn't feel too hot but grabbed some Xanax from my aunt to cushion the fall... Friday night (last night) was ummmm less than pleasant BUT STILL NOT even close to how I felt every time I went to rehab (I mean it was bad; I couldn't sleep for sh*t, felt like I got kicked in the stomach, ached everywhere but whatever you know?). I'm sure tonight will be worse and in fact it will probably continue to get worse for a few days... but it will end and things will be ok again soon...

I'm not too stoked about the idea of going from 8mgs to 0mgs because yeah... I think that might whoop my ass pretty bad. I mean... I've been on it for a couple years... it's BOUND to not be pretty. Like someone on the last thread said "no pain, no gain". But I really doubt that it's going to cause those "I really wish someone would kill me right now because I'm so sick and I don't ever think this will stop" feeling that you get coming off other harder opiates. I WOULD RECOMMEND ONLY STAYING ON IT FOR A MAX OF A COUPLE MONTHS... let yourself get used to not engaging in those behaviors you are used to, get back to a normal life, and once that other stuff feels like an old memory then get off it...

One negative note... I think partially because the Naltrexone/Naloxone acts as an antidepressant? Coming off Sub WILL make you psychologically unstable unless you have amazing self esteem (in which case I'm surprised you're addicted to drugs lol)... that has been my experience...

But, anyway... good luck to all of you... you can make it if you don't get into believing that this drugs is bigger than you are... it is if you indulge in it! Otherwise you can kick it's ass...
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look i have been using heroin for years and have come off on methadone then got on suboxone to get off that. then got back on dope and have been through 6 rehabs now. I CANNOT quit! right now I am on day 3 of being off suboxone. what i got my doctor to do is persribe me clonodine and 800 mg ibuprofin and methocarbamol 750 mg(its a muscle relaxer). he also gave me darvocets to do a darvocet taper. since me being a heroin addict darvocets are like asprins and have no chance of getting me high. but the thing with the darvocets is just the little bit of opiate it has combined with everything else really helps. i have done this once before and it worked great to get me off suboxone without any withdrawl symptoms. of course i relapsed but this time i pray will be different. anyways with the darvocet taper i do 2 pills 6x's a day then 2 pills 4x's a day then 2 then 1. the clonodine also helps with the opiate withdrawl symptoms by binding to one of your opiate receptors. it kind of tricks the brain into thinking it has an opiate. it helps cut withdrawl time in half. look it up on the net, there have been several studies posted about this. of course clonodine also lowers blood pressure(which is raised during opiate withdrawl). this also halps with sleep and the creepy crawlies. but be careful cause it can drop BP too low and that would kill you. of course the 800mg ibuprofen will help with body aches. and as addicts we tend to hate on the 800mg ibprfen but in reality it does work.
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Hey Kellum82 where would I find this study that has been posted on the internet?...

I have a million questions to ask over the next couple days. so many that I don't even know where to start...

but much like you I started with pain-pills (simple Darvocets) then Vicodon, then Norco, then Morphine release, then Methadone, then herion... all over a 3 year period.

then I went cold turkey and felt like ass for 43 days (not a single wink of sleep) started snorting H again for two more months. then went to Methadone full time for 2 years (I got as high as 110 mg.)

and finaly last month I went over to Suboxone. I have been on Sub for 5 weeks now 16mg a day.

I know that I am still in Withdraw from the Methadone so I don't want to go down just yet. but in two more weeks I want to make my move...



Your post moved me more then the others :) so I am asking you for your help...



Thanks,Frank
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hello all....

Just wanted to share my experience's, this is my second time detoxing from
suboxone, my first time I developed a nasty habit of 30-35 hydro's a day, and I was put on suboxone for basically 4 days like so 6mg day 1, 4,2,0.... And I would tell you all that the sub was a miricle drug I had no real w/d maybe some fatigue and felt awesome in about 7 days, previous to that I was taking pain pills for about 2 years. ........ I got stupid and thought I could handle taking a few pain pills and be ok, wrong.....boy was I.. I got hooked again and my tolerance exploded again. I went to another sub. Dr and explained everything and got back on suboxone, I was on it for 2 months, it did make me feel normal but it changed me, I had no motivation..etc. I went from 18 mg down to 4 in the last month and then quit, and it has been he'll, but I'm clean now and its probably been almost 21 days since I took anything, for me the lack of sleep was the worst, I used excedrine pm, and that helped me to sleep 4-6 hours a night. I have anxiety mainly from the detox and lack of sleep but I am feeling soooo much better. In my opion I wish I would have detoxed faster the second time..... The longer you take suboxone the longer the w/d's for me...
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I see an awful lot of negativity concerning SUB......of course nothing is going to be perfect but it is sooooo much better than trying to kick using done. I worked my way up to over a gram of IV heroin a day and sub saved my life. I started the subs at 32MG a day. The benefit of using subs is that it gives you the control of your ween. I took it slow controlling my dosage myself. I've been off of the subs for about 4 days right now after working myslef down to 1mg a day....and i was feeling fine on 1mg but i knew it was time to end it for good. Sure I don't feel great but I can manage it.....the biggest thing is my body temp feels soo low......Im freezing my ass off sitting here at work....but at least I can make it to work and I've been able to keep this job. There are sooo many cry babys i see on here saying that subs are evil blah blah blah. YOU are responsible for your own addictions. How can you expect it to be 100% painless grow the f**k up and take some responsiblity for whats going on in your life. Sorry for venting but some of the people on here make me sick......thinkin the system owes them a totally painless cure for something they did to themselves
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Too bad this thread has died like this. I found it to be very helpful.

I have been on suboxone for 18 months now. I started at 4MG and have been doing 1MG now for the last 6 months. I tried to stop cold turkey about 4 months ago, but felt so depressed, I had no choice but to start back up again at 1MG. I even had titrated down to 1/2 MG for 2 weeks before stopping. That lasted 2 days and the withdrawl was pretty bad. Mood swings were terrible.

I am also on 20mg Lexapro and 150mg Welbutrin SR.

The problem with Suboxone is that while it does work for the narc addition, it is also both physically and mentally addicting. Period. No matter what your MD tells you, it is their lack of knowledge about the drug and lack of experience that they only go by what the cue cards tell them to say.

Once your receptors in your body are open, the lack of seretonin in your blood stream acts like a storm against those raw and open receptors. Your body grew addicted to having those receptors blocked, and now, left naked, the body can't produce enough seretonin fast enough to compensate.

I know, because I am a pharmacist and I understand drug receptors and addiction and the mechanisms that cause it.

I am going to try again over the 4th of july holidays, hoping that I can compensate by having good things around me, staying focused, and burying myself with my family around.

But, the biggest thing is the dread we feel about the withdrawl.

Its terrible.

Has anyone reading this thread beat the Suboxone addiction yet? Has anyone done the chemical detox method ? Anyone have any avice?

Please keep this thread alive. The more we communicate about this problem, the better our chances of getting the drug companies to look into this further.
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Hi there. This is my first posting EVER but I thought this thread actually had some depth and I wanted to weigh in. Ive searched high and low for useful posts to get me through the many w/d's and always found conflicting info... so here's my story. I became depressed about 3 years ago and discovered oxycontin and percocets. I should have known better considering the serious alcoholism and pill and crack and H and you name it addictions in my family... but I always thought I'd be different and then one day it just becomes easier to give up. I started out at only 21 years old w/ a 5mg hydro once a day and within a year I was "up" to 100mg a day of oxycodone or an 80mg oxycontin 3 to 5 times a day. Impressive, right? Well I was also "down" 1 fiance', 1 dream job, 1 beautiful condo, 1 brand new car, and 20g's in debt from psych ward stays from suicide attempts and medical bills from car crashes and charging cash advances on my credit card to buy pills just to get me through the day without getting sick. But now that I got that off my chest... I was introduced to subs 6 monts ago from a friend after a bad withdrawal and immediately took stock. I couldn't afford the doctor so I bought them off the street and did all the research I could. I started out with good intentions but really just used them when scripts were scarse or I needed a couple weeks to re-up on some cash... never truly intending to stay off. It was just to keep the w/d symptoms at bay until I could score. Again I'm rambling... to the point... 40 days ago I made the decision I wanted my life back and started on my path to soberness. I stocked up on as many subs as I possibly could. I started out on 4-6mg every 24 to 36 hours (you decide based on how u feel... *BUT* but don't take more on account of the headache alone! The infamous "bupe headache" will haunt you but don't fear it passes as soon as u get the subs out of your system!) I've seen postings where people are on 32mg a day which to me seems uneccesary as the bupe cielings at 32mg and no matter how high your tolerance is and what your drug of choice is you should try and take the lowest dose that you need. It keeps the length of the taper and inevitable w/d to a minimum. I suggest when starting out on the subs when entering w/d to take 2mgs at a time every hour until u feel better and stick with that at your cieling dose. I stayed on 4-6mg for 4 weeks to stabalize my mind and body, and all was well. I then slowly tapered down every week/7 days by 1mg until I was down to just powdered dust under my tongue. It was time for the inevitable! I made sure I had a good 10 days of nothing to do and nowhere to go and locked up the subs far enough out of reach. (Keep just a couple in case something comes up and for some reason ur not ready for detox! Emergencies, work, cravings/relapse.) I've seen horror stories about months of w/d but don't let it discourage you! A 40 day sub dose is plenty of time to successfully taper without excessive side effects. I of course stocked up on valium/xanax for sleep and moods (though I could have used some stronger sleeping pills some nights), immodium for the squirts, antihistamines for the incessant sneezing and watery eyes, acetominophen for the aches and creepy crawlies and sweats, and plenty of h2o! Stay hydrated! This is dire to helping flush yourself out and too keep your muscles from aching. Also, keep moving! Your going to feel at times like your gonna jump out of your skin and hot showers and excersize helps! So day 1-3 was not easy! I started feeling some w/d after about 24 hours of my last sub dose and after 48 hours I was deep in it! My legs ached so bad I could hardly move which didn't help the running to the bathroom every half hour! The bupe headache was in full force but on day 3 disappeared as well as the sneezing started to subside. (Try counting sneezes per day, keep record of that and ur temperature and when/what OTC meds you take. Keeps u occupied and helps show your progress! I looked at that as proof the pain was worth it during those moments of weakness and craving.) Nowhere near a cold turkey but certainly not fun! A 4 on a 1-10 pain scale. Days 2-4 were probably the worst! But it starts to subside gradually. Days 3-6 was probably a 2 on the scale and without self-medicating with all those OTC drugs. (Ahhhh sweet progress!) The symptoms were at times nonexistant and I had bursts of true energy not just restless energy. I smiled! I laughed! But watch out that turns on you easily. Sleep was harder to come by and the nightmares weren't fun but when I did sleep it was very restful. Days 6-10 were just as much of a mindf*ck as ever but ... No pain no gain! If you really want this its atainable and hey what's being sober anyways... a mindf*ck! After day 10 I felt like a whole person again. I am nowhere near out of the woods but I am not lost in them. Now its day 45 and the light is at the end of the tunnel! Some days are harder than others but I can't remember when my mind was so clear or I had so much energy! Life feels worth living again! I just think about everything I've been through and how hard I worked to get sober when I feel depressed about the mess my life has become since becomming a junkie. The sooner you suck it up and face reality the sooner you can clean the mess up and move forward. I could definitely use some anti depressants as irrational thinking is still present after 45 days... maybe this is what everyone is referring too about the MONTHS of w/d's ... but this is to be expected for a substantial period after any addiction. Now I keep 2 subs on my nightstand that are collecting dust so when I feel that familiar craving I have a safety net in case I feel a relapse. Just 1mg will knock it right out of ya and no harm done! I hope I was helpful and didn't bore too many of you. I have several friends following the lead and have heard positive things. Suboxone may not be a "miracle" but I don't think I could have done it without that little orange pill! Good luck!
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I've just spent about 2 hours reading every word in this post, and it has really helped. I've never been one for the support group (AA, NA) method of detox / relapse prevention, so reading these experiences has been the closest thing to a group.

History
One fateful week, junior year in high school, my friends mom went away and we (already pot heads) decided to raid the medicine cabinet. I can no longer name all the drug 'firsts' I went through, but among them, are OxyContin, Percoset, Vicodin, Seroquil, Xanax, Clonazepam, and I'm sure there are more.
Over the next 2 years (2003-2005), my love afair with opiates was cemented. Those of you who were partiers in high school and ended up junkies can probably relate to the idea of condensing a plethora of drug-related activities into a single drug obsession.
For the next two-three years (2005-January 9,2008), My habbit evolved from a once a week (more whenever possible) oxy habbit, to (June 07) a $100 a day heroin habbit.
From June - December I did not miss a single day of H (all intranasally, thank god I'm afraid of needles)
Present
On January 9, 2008, I went to a local walk in clinic and got methadone. I was on 60mg, and tapered 1mg/2days almost immediately (I had gone to the clinic to get clean and didn't know that methadone is perscribed indefinitely). In April, I abruptly stopped at 10mg thinking that it would be nothing. I was determined as hell, but entirely unprepared for what was in store. After 8 days of hell (probably very closed to the promise land), I bought myself some Heroin.

I spent about a month on Heroin up until mid-May, at which point I felt like a complete waste of life (have been hiding this addiction from my girlfriend, family, etc).
I went back on the clinic till late May when I wanted to go away for Memorial day weekend. I bought myself 3 suboxones (On the streets, they cost $5/8mg--- Far less than the 105/wk the clinic was charging me). I felt great for those 3 days, and then, when day 4 came around, I didn't take anything and felt fine.
At this point, we're up to June 1 or so. Day two sucks so I pick up 3 more subs and create a 10 day taper for myself that last till June 9th. (It went something like 4-4-4-2-2-2-2-1-1-1(in mg).
After my last 1mg dose I managed almost 2 days (withdrawals were worse than you'd think). At this point I did what most addicts would do and went out to try and find myself more suboxones. Some kid offered my vikes, and at the time, I turned him down. After 2 hours of not finding any subs, I came back to this guy and bought 12 5mg hydros.
So, for days 3-6 w/ no suboxone, I took 5mg 3x/day of vikes and kind of felt like sh*t about myself (having come full circle and ended up on another full-agonist.
At this point (todays day 2 w/out vikes), I think that purchasing vicodins was probably very helpful. For the record, I do NOT recommend doing this to help with your withdrawal, as there's a high probability of causing a relapse. I was lucky / determined enough to never use more than 5mg every 6 hours, just enough to keep away the suboxone withdrawals during the peak days.
I'm not sure what the current chemistry of my brain is. I'm on day 2 of vicodin withdrawal, and day 8 of sub withdrawal and I feel.. decent. Nothing compared to the week of methadone withdrawal. Sleeping was rough last night, and I'm lethargic and very sweaty. I'm not sure what I should expect right now though.. The way I figure- I'll be alright by next week.
I'm curious as to what the chemistry of my brain is at the moment.. Did the vikes essentially "kick out" the subs from my receptors? Am I feeling vike or sub w/d at the moment?
Tips for overcoming W/D symptoms:
1. DISTRACT YOURSELF
I could not possibly stress this enough. Those of you who've ended up on this website are probably a) somewhat intelligent (or at least computer-adept) and b) somewhat introspective / intraverted. This means that you're probably going to spend most of your day thinking about how you're feeling and catalouging the symptoms you're experiencing. The problem with this is that the mere process of self-analisys is creating and amplifying your symptoms!!!
2. CREATE YOUR DEFENSE
What I mean by this is; Arm yourself with whatever will possible help you get through this, both physically and psychologically. Get yourself some relatively benign medications (aspirin, etc) and when you are experiencing pain, take one. (not more than is medically sound). This helps not just because of the actual effect of the drug, but because you feel as though you've got the edge now. You're not trapped, you've got your little army of medications (aspirin, melatonin(sleep), chamomille tea(also sleep)) to help you get through this.
3. STAY ACTIVE
This is pretty self explanatory, and it helps in multiple ways. First off, while you're active, you're hardly ever thinking about your symptoms. When I went through my methadone withdrawal, I spent 8-12 hours each day chainsawing through trees, and during those hours, I felt (relatively) alright. Staying active also helps because it will increase your odds of getting a good nights sleep.
4. EAT HEALTHY
Remember that everything you put in your body is helping to get the toxins out of your body. Every trip to the bathroom means slightly less opiates in your system!
5. FIND SUPPORT
Even if it's just this thread. Make sure you know you're not going through it alone.. thousands of people around the country are fighting for their lives against the jaws of addiction. You can / will make it.

There, I hope reading this is as theropeautic as writing it was. I wish everyone the best of luck.
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I took my last dosage of suboxone on Wednesday, June 25th, 2008. I have been off of suboxone for 6 full days, and clean for almost 5 months. I was on Suboxone for EXACTLY 5 months. I started from 16mg and went down to 4mg, and then back up to 8mg because I was getting cravings at 4mg.

THE PURPOSE OF THIS DRUG IS TO STOP YOUR CRAVINGS!

I took 16mg for 1 month
8mg for 1 month
4mg for 3 weeks
8mg for 2 months, 1 week

The withdrawals were NOT BAD compared to my heroin, oxycontin, and cocaine withdrawals. This time I stopped with strength and not fear of withdrawals.

The withdrawals will be as bad as you want to make them. Do not give power to your dependence on the drug. As many doctors have and will tell you, it is in your head. If you want to quit, if you want to have a better life, then show some strength for you and your higher power. Be strong.

GET YOURSELF TO A MEETING. Meeting makers make it. You will find people that want to help you in your recovery and will give you the hope to hold on during those rough times. While it is hard to remain abstinent, it is even harder to remain abstinent by yourself.

THE WITHDRAWALS ARE A DROP IN THE BUCKET COMPARED TO HEROIN WITHDRAWALS. REMEMBER WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN AND PUSH THROUGH!!!
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I took my last dosage of suboxone on Wednesday, June 25th, 2008. I have been off of suboxone for 6 full days, and clean for almost 5 months. I was on Suboxone for EXACTLY 5 months. I started from 16mg and went down to 4mg, and then back up to 8mg because I was getting cravings at 4mg.

THE PURPOSE OF THIS DRUG IS TO STOP YOUR CRAVINGS!

I took 16mg for 1 month
8mg for 1 month
4mg for 3 weeks
8mg for 2 months, 1 week

The withdrawals were NOT BAD compared to my heroin, oxycontin, and cocaine withdrawals. This time I stopped with strength and not fear of withdrawals.

The withdrawals will be as bad as you want to make them. Do not give power to your dependence on the drug. As many doctors have and will tell you, it is in your head. If you want to quit, if you want to have a better life, then show some strength for you and your higher power. Be strong.

GET YOURSELF TO A MEETING. Meeting makers make it. You will find people that want to help you in your recovery and will give you the hope to hold on during those rough times. While it is hard to remain abstinent, it is even harder to remain abstinent by yourself.

THE WITHDRAWALS ARE A DROP IN THE BUCKET COMPARED TO HEROIN WITHDRAWALS. REMEMBER WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN AND PUSH THROUGH!!!

I wasn't going to sign-up, but I did just to get the word out.
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Background: I started using the pain meds just like all the other people on here. I began taking the 30mg roxys recreationally but over time got addicted. The first time I felt any wthdrawals from not being on them was about 14 months ago. Since then I have been using more than ever. I was up to at least 150mgs a day sometime up to 300mgs. I decided it was enough for me and was going to kick it cold turkey. I took a vacation hoping that would cure me - big mistake. I went into the worst withdrawals that I could imagine. I didn't sleep for four days, not a wink. I had the runny nose, diarrhea, headaches, and terrible depression and exhaustion. I could barely sit up to eat a meal. The worst part was I was on vacation with my friends and family. My friends didn't understand why I couldn't even hang out and have a few drinks with them.
Anyways, I was on my fifth day off - and i woke up feeling a million times better - I was surprised. But what did I do? Go home that day and get more roxys.
So yeah, i relapsed for another couple of months and am back on my 200mgs a day. I absolutely can not afford this, i absolutely can not keep lying to everyone who cares about me, and i really need to get off. I have used subs in the past to get me through days without pills, as emergency stash. I've taken it and then felt fine even the day after I took it. Let's just say that i have done my share of experimenting with this drug. Anyways, I just want to know how I should use this pill. I feel fine today off just one 8mg pill, and usually am fine on just a half or so. But after reading all this about how people are on this drug for months and months to get off it kind of scares me....I thought i could just ween off with about ten 8mg pills.

What do you think? What should be the dosage for me given my history??

Thank you very much!
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hey, if theres anyone out there that still reads this thing, i have been on suboxone for exactly a year. i was taking just 15 mg. of hydros, 3x a day. not bad at all. this is for pain from having back surgery and i absolutely cannot function w/o SOMETHING for pain. ibuprofen helps just a little, not enough to keep me off the couch. ANYWAYS, i was going through more meds than my dr wanted. he thought 30 pills should last for a few months. i don't know where to get pain pills at either b/c i haven't been a partier for years now. so, i read on the internet about subutex, leading to reading about suboxone for pain. i was waiting forever for a referral to this pain clinic for my back, and felt like i could die my pain was so bad. so, i called a sub dr, and lied..when he asked how many i was taking, i said, like 30. i'm trying to make this as short and sweet as possible here guys, sooo,, i've been on 4-8mg for a year, and just didn't think i wanted to pay for it again, and just stopped. cold turkey. i can't believe i never thought of tapering off. but, it's been almost two weeks now, and i have been taking way more opiates than i even was on when starting suboxone. 20 mg. 4 times a day at least, and want way more than that b/c i am aching so bad, have "cold turkey skin" sneezes, creepy crawlies, and cannot sleep or eat a thing. the pain meds are not even touching the way i feel still. when whill this end?!?!?!?!?!?!
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I have been on suboxone 4 one year. I started at 16 mg. a day, and weened down to 8 mg. a day.

I was at 35-40 vicodin hp a day, and sometimes 3 150 mg fentanyl patch mix with 35 vic. hp, and 150 mg oxy a day, depending on my script status.

I have quit suboxone for 4 days now, and can't sleep, have muscle spasms, and flu-feeling.


Can anyone help me???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I just read what u posted on the 9th, how are u feeling now.All i can say is stay strong ,every day gets better.
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