Hello, I will try not to make this too lengthy, and my mind is a little fuzzy and uncoordinated still so i will try to make as much sense as possible. I also have ADD so I will mentally try and not bounce all around.
My hope in making this post is to help somebody who is/was in my position.
I'm almost 29 years old now, recently married, and have been on some sort of opiate everyday since the age of 14-15. It started with 4 5/500 vicoden from a friend, and I was in love. My addiction progressed rapidly as I seem to get focused on one thing at a time and do it to the best of my ability. I was infatuated with opiates. I quickly learned that my disabled father who had a pill bottle that said MS Contin on it, meant morphine sulfate, because the internet had just become prevalent and I searched it. My father who is not an addict, always takes less than prescribed. This allowed me to steal them under the radar for a year or 2, until he ran out way early. I remember seeing my mom holding a blanket over him while he was shivering from physical withdrawal. I felt bad, but not bad enough to stop. I was eventually caught stealing them and was promptly sent to rehab for kids. 12 days and I'm out. I went right back to drugs. My parents bought a fire safe to keep the meds in, after trying every single hiding spot in the whole house. I have some sort of drug radar, can always find them. My parents underestimated my manipulative ways and sneakiness, and keen eye for observation. I knew my dad had ADD just like me. I knew he would never be able to remember the combination to the safe. I also knew he would lose any paper with the com on it unless it was in his wallet. It took me 1 day to get into the safe.
Fast track a few years......
My dad was put on OxyContin 80mg, Fentanyl Patches, 150Mcg, and 50Mcg, Since he had them, I found them, and I was on them too. I tried to responsibly steal them, not overindulging, didn't work....
2x at Rehab... 1 Catapryss detox, 1 fast suboxone taper.
Now, I'm clean for 30 days this time, then the pills are left out and I'm back. I went through countless girlfriends, all of which had parents/grandparents with stocked medicine cabinets. My friends parents, my coworkers, i'm telling you I had drug radar.. I just knew who had them and where they were. I got in a serious relationship after finally getting kicked out of my parents house. Hey what do you know, her Mom is a pill head, who gets 90 day prescriptions of Oxy's plus countless other drugs. I raped her stash. I raped my dads stash. I ran out. I went to rehab on my own accord this time.
I soaked in the recovery this time. Made a solid plan. Kicked out my good friend who was my roommate because I was so brainwashed into thinking that him smoking weed was going to get me back on the pills. I still feel like a penis for kicking him out.
5 days later my appendix decides to explode. My inner addict came out at the hospital. Even though the excrutiating pain was knocked out completely by my first shot of a non narcotic anti inflammitory, I dreamed my whole addict life for this moment, this one bad accident...major surgery...that I could get pills of my very own. I even tried to break my own bones in the past...I put on a helluva show, they gave me morphine, which didn't work because my tolerance was still sky high from the 240mg per dose Oxy. They sent me home with a prescription for oxy...which i refused... and one for vicoden. I knew that I was hooked again. I tried to get high one last time...dissolving all 60 vicoden in a glass and straining out the tylenol. I didn't get that high.
I went to see one of the handful of suboxone doctors that were in the state the next day...This is when it was still new. He started me off at 16mg...although I could of started at 2mg. And this is the start of ACT 2.
I was on suboxone for almost 8 years. In this time I quit seeing my original doctor because I was scared after a drug test would show I smoked pot. I did do 1 year completely clean minus suboxone, working NA, outpatient therapy. the works. I found another doctor, things were going good, until i was cut off of my parents insurance. Luckily my dad got off all of his pain meds and was on suboxone, and just like before, never took what he was prescribed, and left me 2mg a day. I took that 2mg dose for 4 years straight. Which I find out is a huge mistake. Anyway, I got county insurance and went to another doctor. A GP, who is just doing it for money, is not that knowledgeable, and has no idea what she is doing to people. Yes, suboxone saved my life, as it has saved countless others. I used to think at the age of 15 that I would be dead in 10 years, no problem. Towards the end of active addiction I prayed for it to come sooner.
Now to the point of ACT 2. Do not stay on suboxone longer than you need to. I know every circumstance is different, everyone is wired different, for some it is physical, some mental, some both. But be brutally honest with yourself and a doctor who is knowledgeable and you can trust to help you. The longer you take it, the worse the withdrawal. The higher the dose you jump off, the worse the withdrawal. I've tried jumping at 4mg, 2mg, 1mg, 2mg again. After so many failed attempts and no trust in what my doctor was doing I did my own research. If you are on this medication for more than 6 to 8 months, you need to do a very slow taper down to a very small dose. I went back to 4 mg for 3 months, 3 mg for 3 months, 2 mg for 3 months, 1 mg for 2 months, .5 mg for 1 month, and then .25 mg for 1 month. I then took .25mg every other day for two weeks, then .125 every 3rd day... only did that twice.
Now I want to tell you my withdrawal symptoms, everyone is different. First I notice I just feel off, then comes overwhelming lethargy in the body, but a racing mind. Racing mind turns my general anxiety into unbearable anxiety. No will to do anything. No appetite. No sleep. I feel like a robot after having his circuits fried.
INGREDIENTS FOR SUCCESS.
What worked for me.
1.) Clonodine for Acute withdrawal. It is a blood pressure medicine that really helps.
3.) Long Acting Benzodiazepine. I.E. Valium or illibrium. Xanax and clonopin and the like are just too strong and too short lived and have an extremely higher level of dependence potential. Not to mention you need to take a lot of them to get through. Unless you are a zen drug addict, or ghandi with a problem, anxiety is a problem. I tried 5mg 2x a day but it was too weak. I got bumped to 10mg 2x a day, it is more like 5 mg 4x a day. I'm now at 15mg per day. 5mg 3x a day.
4.) Stimulant for the lethargy. You cannot get better if you cannot get up. After long term opiate use your brain no longer makes it's own endorphins. You will not feel happy until you get physical. I have ADD and have been taking adderall on and off for years. Before detox I was taking 1 15mg instant release per day. That had to change to 4x per day for the first month and a half, then 3x a day currently.
5.) Milk thistle. You would not believe the toxins that I saw come out of my body during 3 weeks of milk thistle. It is expensive, but along with adderall and as much water as you can drink, you can cut the half life of suboxone in half.
6.) Patience. I am now 62 days off suboxone. I am still struggling, but i am surviving it. I mostly deal with depression and a general lack of genuine emotion most of the time. I've heard others having the opposite reactions, overly emotional, but I'm pretty robot like. My wife is starting to lose it with me, and I am going to go see a specialist to see what I can't do to start to feel normal. BTW. I don't have any idea what normal is. I started taking opiates right after puberty. I didnt even get to know myself before I lost myself. and now 14 and a half years later I'm a grown man, I'm married, I have skill sets, I can keep a job, I even excel at whatever I do. So the longer you are on these drugs, the more you forget who you are, and if you are unfortunate to start early like me, you never even got the chance. This weighs on my mind more than anything. What if I'm a completely different person? What if I did permanent damage and can never truly feel happy or motivated again? It's a waiting game.
7.) Support. I've made it this far, but if I want to keep going I need somebody, SOMEBODY who actually understands what I'm going through. Suboxone and my addiction have made me an isolated person. I've always relied on myself anyway, I hate to ask people for things, even worse, I hate to talk about what I'm truly feeling. So in my case, I need a therapist, and a psychiatrist who knows about this little "miracle drug" epidemic.
8.) Hope, and a higher power. I'm not religious. I was raised religious but have developed my own spiritual views. I'm not preaching religion or NA. But if you had the power to do it without help, wouldn't you have done it by now. I tried 6x myself and failed. This time I even went as far to ask St. Jude for a Miracle, which I truly thought that I needed. I'm not catholic nor have I even heard of St. Jude before I started detoxing. I said the prayer, the miracle was made, my mindset changed, and now I just know I'll get through it.
I did read as a result of St. Jude helping you out with a miracle, You have to publicly publish a thank you. I will do this here. Thank You so much St. Jude for a smooth detox and a new perspective. Amen. (Catholic sites try to make you pay 10 bucks to thank him, but one would imagine that he is not greedy like them, ask and you shall recieve, and then say thank you where people will see it.
I know the last part may sound weird to some, but what is it gonna hurt to try? Feel free to message me with any questions about my story or an
Impossible, I was on suboxone for 2 years and was almost suicidal at the 4 month mark, there are people who are taking their own life for God sake because of suboxone PAWS and its horrid depression issues.
Nobody has made it clean for 6 months after stopping suboxone.
Hate to say this but methadone is 10 times easier in that it last shortest and no long term depression from methadone.
Am on methadone now.
Just read your post right now. Damn the taper did not work? I think you may have wasted your time with tapering, I do not believe it makes any difference at all jumping from 8mg then tapering to 0.25. Its a big shame you wasted all that time weaning to no avail. Also your taking valium, that shows how much bup is in your brain and how bad you feel.
I too have heard suicidal thoughts by folks coming off suboxone. I have never in my life known anybody who took bup or over 4 years and stay clean.
By the way don't believe in a god, christianity is rapidly on the decline, the only ones who do have anything to do with it are some africans and other uneducated people who live in the developed world. Its all psychological your feeling..No evidence of a god, UN studies prove that the most educated and intelligent people do not believe in christianity nor god, and they are mostly right in everything.
Anyway about your sub taper it is big disappointment that your feeling terrible, what a waste, seems less is more and you have just accumulated buprenorphine rather then decreasing it.
I fear for you now because nearly everybody is close to putting a bullet through their head post-bup.
You went every other day on last doses and tapered yet you still felt horrible LOL, sorry that vindicates us that sub is EVIL and DOES permanently damage brain chemistry and biology..Nobody ever has gotten off suboxone or subutex after being on it for more then 3 months. The horrid depression comes on around 5 months and lasts for 4-10 years, this is a biological fact based on experiences and human nature.
I was on subutex for 3 years and weaned myselff off and its been 7 months and it seems to get worse, the mental is always worse then pshyycal. I dont ever think am going to be the same again. I honestly conteplanted suicide but thre htought og my mother suffering was too much, I do not know what to do at this point. The depression is awuful and its easy to see how people try to commit suicide because of this, its so long lasting, the damage has been done.
I did a similar taper method, here I am almost 3 months and am not going to lie, this is BADDDDDDD. I honestly thought I was going to die. I must admit I took low dose methadone and I may start to do thaty regularly for 8 months or so,.. I cant live live through PAWS from suboxone or subutex, its gruelling and depression if f*****g BRUTEL.
When I went off subs I tried everything and nothing workd, sub is too strong for anything to help withdrawals.
Do you know I was still withdrawing hardcore at the 5th month? the sub blows out receptors, this is one of the reasons depression may stay with us for a loooong while, and why nobody can get past those feelings so either relapse or go back on subs. But like somebody said here going back on subs is like killing yourself because you feel absouyltely sh*t on them..I myself went to methadone and am going to stay there I don't care, probably for life.. But then my life will be screwed, you cant get a job on methadone, cant produce kids, cant enjoy emotions, laughs etc, sub is even worse staying on, this is the price we pay for choosing to pick up drugs..I see others progressin in life, happy, clean, marriaed, shagging their mrs or mrs everyday, getting their endorphins up, going on vacations, leading a decent career earning decent money etc yet we are screwed for life...suboxone or subutex withdrawals suck and can last anywhere between 3-10 years, this is why nobody who touches sub ever makes it off.
Am begginning to think death may be an option. I mean who wants to go through sub withdrawals for years? exactly.
I'm glad ur off suboxone- I'm tapering off now, but I certainly wouldn't feel good about getting off of them if I had to start taking benzos and a stimulant instead. I don't want to have to replace them with any prescription meds. I'm trying a slow taper and hoping for the best. I hope it works. Your post brought tears to my eyes when you expressed your fear about not knowing yourself. I can relate. Thanks for your honesty. I'm gonna try the St. Jude thing too!
Your negativity reeks. By the way, you don't have to be religious to believe in god (a higher power). One more thing how can you make a statement like "nobody has ever gotten off suboxone after being on it for more than three months"?
You have no idea how many people have done it. Your ignorance is blinding! Not to mention the negativity. Don't forget half the battle is mental, and with all that negativity, you're not helping anybody.
Sorry to burst your bubble but Methadone is the hardest drug of all to come off. I've been on it for 25 years, on various doses from 140mg to nothing for 6 months then back on for the last bout of 6 years. I am, today on 10mg and am going into the clinic on Monday to start Syboxone as I have heard some good reports about it. I guess its just different strokes and all that. I have to pick up methadone daily and sub weekly, big attraction. Also not as big of a stigma with sub as methadone. I wouldnt suggest methadone unless you have a big H problem. Im 56, this is a life long battle.
I would not do suboxone, I too felt methadone was easier then coming off suboxone...The subs will mess up with your brain chemistry, suck your soul and even give permanent damage, you only need to take suboxone for 1 month and still get bad withdrawals for 3 months or so, thats how bad it is..With methadone I recovered after 2-3 months, it wasnt that bad, but suboxone withdrawals and its aftermath last for years, I too had personal experienced where I felt bad and horrible for 5 months after quitting suboxone, now am on oxycodone. Still dont feel much right, I know for a fact suboxone is way harder to come off then methadone by millions miles, dont get my wrong methadone is stil bad, but there are no reports of people staying clean and happy after quitting suboxone, as there with methadone, this is a statement of fact.
Hi, thanks for youre reply, but I have no intentions of coming off Sub - ever. I am a liifer, 0ver 20 years on methadone and not a slip up ( after a 10 year Heroin addiction) and I cant see why I need to. Everyone is always going on about the withdrawals from methadone or Suboxone and why bother? Diabetics dont have to worry about coming off insulin. I have had Ostio arthritis since 29 and also Hep C, taking Methadone is like oiling my joints every morning and it works really well, I remain extremely active, at 56, walking my dog an hour a day and I dont own a car so I bike everywhere. I believe that if you want to stay on it for the rest of your life, why not? I was just hoping the Suboxone is an equally effective pain killer.
staying on suboxone for life? you want to feel depressed all your life? lose motivation ?energy? interests? A life on subs is no life! The longer you stay on it the more your building it up, and these side affects will hit you I promise you this now. Be a MAN. There people younger then you with illnesses yet have a decent career, enjoying life and progressing without the likes of subs and methadone..