Hi all,
My name is Gregg and I'm a 45yo man with multiple back and knee surgeries. In a desperate move to end my addiction to pain meds I inducted into a Suboxone program last Sunday night without doing my homework. It is now after 8:30pm Thursday evening and I've taken a grand total of 31mg broken down as follows:
Sunday: 10:00pm - 12:30am, 5mg (1mg at 1/2 hour intervals)
Monday-am thru Tuesday-pm: 19mg total (not sure of intervals, roughly 8 hours)
Wednesday: 12:00am, 4mg
Wednesday: 10:00am, 3mg
So, in a 60 hour span (2 1/2 days) between Sunday night and Wednesday morning I dosed 31mg total) Sometime in the wee hours of Wednesday morning I decided, after reading endless horror stories, that I am way more afraid of Suboxone than I am of Oxy. The larger dosing you see above is me trying to follow my doctors orders and take huge quantities of Sub (he originally wrote me for 24mg a day!), but I just couldn't do it. So, I'm doing a taper, and as rapid a one as I can stand.
I am now at 34 1/2 hours since my last dose of 3mg and I am feeling a little bit funky, but not terrible yet. Some anxiety and mental fogginess (keep misspelling wurdz). This, though, seems to be getting better, not worse (Hmm...)
My thought was to wait until 11:00pm tonight (37 hours since last dose) and if I'm suddenly really sick taking 1mg so as not to keep increasing my serum concentrations and number of receptors bound (3mg + 37hrs = roughly 1.5mg pharmacologic activity, so adding 1mg should bring it to roughly 2.5mg, plus whatever residual is left from Sunday thru Tuesday. At the very least it should not increase my serum levels.) If I'm not intolerably sick I'll refrain from any more Suboxone as long as I can stand it. Any thoughts on this?
By now the Oxy should be pretty much clear of my system (last use was 118 1/2 hours, or almost 5 days, ago) so I'm pretty much runnin' on Buprenorphine alone. I'm cautiously optimistic 'cuz I can't believe that I've developed some hardcore Buprenorphine addiction by taking it for two and a half days. I know that many detox facilities use high dose Suboxone for rapid detoxs of 4 to 7 days with abrupt cessation afterward, so I am likening my use to that. There's a medical opiod detox program in a neighboring state that uses upwards of 108mg over four days, and then absolutely nothing. I'm sure it's no fun, but folks do it all the time.
Something else puzzles me: Why do people doing Sub tapers dose every day? Yes, they decrease their dose, but by dosing every day aren't they keeping their levels higher than might be absolutely necessary given the 37 hour half-life? Every time I've ever done a taper from any opiate, I've always waited until I was at least a bit sick - not horrible, but feeling punk - before I dosed, and then only enough to back it off until I'm semi-comfortable. And I'm not tough like that; I cannot handle hardcore w/d, but I'm tough enough, and disciplined enough, to wait as long as possible between doses. It seems to me that if one waited until they were far enough along for the Buprenorphine levels in their bodies to fall far enough to make them a bit ill before dosing, then they'd have given their bodies that much more time to: a) let the Bupe levels in their brain/spine drop further, and, b) let their brain heal a bit, or accustom itself to less Bupe. Isn't that the idea?
I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.
Oh, and no horror stories please, I'm freaked-out enough!
~G
My name is Gregg and I'm a 45yo man with multiple back and knee surgeries. In a desperate move to end my addiction to pain meds I inducted into a Suboxone program last Sunday night without doing my homework. It is now after 8:30pm Thursday evening and I've taken a grand total of 31mg broken down as follows:
Sunday: 10:00pm - 12:30am, 5mg (1mg at 1/2 hour intervals)
Monday-am thru Tuesday-pm: 19mg total (not sure of intervals, roughly 8 hours)
Wednesday: 12:00am, 4mg
Wednesday: 10:00am, 3mg
So, in a 60 hour span (2 1/2 days) between Sunday night and Wednesday morning I dosed 31mg total) Sometime in the wee hours of Wednesday morning I decided, after reading endless horror stories, that I am way more afraid of Suboxone than I am of Oxy. The larger dosing you see above is me trying to follow my doctors orders and take huge quantities of Sub (he originally wrote me for 24mg a day!), but I just couldn't do it. So, I'm doing a taper, and as rapid a one as I can stand.
I am now at 34 1/2 hours since my last dose of 3mg and I am feeling a little bit funky, but not terrible yet. Some anxiety and mental fogginess (keep misspelling wurdz). This, though, seems to be getting better, not worse (Hmm...)
My thought was to wait until 11:00pm tonight (37 hours since last dose) and if I'm suddenly really sick taking 1mg so as not to keep increasing my serum concentrations and number of receptors bound (3mg + 37hrs = roughly 1.5mg pharmacologic activity, so adding 1mg should bring it to roughly 2.5mg, plus whatever residual is left from Sunday thru Tuesday. At the very least it should not increase my serum levels.) If I'm not intolerably sick I'll refrain from any more Suboxone as long as I can stand it. Any thoughts on this?
By now the Oxy should be pretty much clear of my system (last use was 118 1/2 hours, or almost 5 days, ago) so I'm pretty much runnin' on Buprenorphine alone. I'm cautiously optimistic 'cuz I can't believe that I've developed some hardcore Buprenorphine addiction by taking it for two and a half days. I know that many detox facilities use high dose Suboxone for rapid detoxs of 4 to 7 days with abrupt cessation afterward, so I am likening my use to that. There's a medical opiod detox program in a neighboring state that uses upwards of 108mg over four days, and then absolutely nothing. I'm sure it's no fun, but folks do it all the time.
Something else puzzles me: Why do people doing Sub tapers dose every day? Yes, they decrease their dose, but by dosing every day aren't they keeping their levels higher than might be absolutely necessary given the 37 hour half-life? Every time I've ever done a taper from any opiate, I've always waited until I was at least a bit sick - not horrible, but feeling punk - before I dosed, and then only enough to back it off until I'm semi-comfortable. And I'm not tough like that; I cannot handle hardcore w/d, but I'm tough enough, and disciplined enough, to wait as long as possible between doses. It seems to me that if one waited until they were far enough along for the Buprenorphine levels in their bodies to fall far enough to make them a bit ill before dosing, then they'd have given their bodies that much more time to: a) let the Bupe levels in their brain/spine drop further, and, b) let their brain heal a bit, or accustom itself to less Bupe. Isn't that the idea?
I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.
Oh, and no horror stories please, I'm freaked-out enough!
~G
Hi Gregg! IF you Google Excessive use of VINEGAR you will also have horror stories! I know this sounds like a joke, but I'm quite serious! Suboxone was created for people like you and I whom have become TOTALLY addicted to Oxycocet and Oxycodone! It is the lesser of 2 evils! Your doctor TOTALLY understands your health and your case Gregg! So just take what the doctor told you! Because as someone - that felt the EXACT same way as you - trying to get off of the pills ASAP! I made it worse and my withdrawls were AWFUL! So follow what he says OK?
Also are you still in pain?
Also are you still in pain?
Hi Bambi,
I totally respect your POV, I do. But I never took my recovery seriously whenever I got clean before. I'd just toodle along, clean for a while, going to meetings (to satisfy all those around me) then I'd use again, 'cuz I'm in control (HA!) So I'm going to give "taking my recovery seriously" a shot this time once I'm clean of everything, including Bupe, and see what I can attain that way. I just need to be clean first. I feel dirty as can be on Bupe, can you understand that? I neeeeeeeeeeeed to be clean. My very soul is screaming for it, and I KNOW I can do it if I actually try this time. As I said, I never took recovery seriously before, now I do, and that is a MAJOR change in me. Even my family, who've had many years of listening to addicts baloney, say that there's something different in me. I am NOT in control, and I know that now. I never did before. Maybe someday, if I fail again (which I WILL NOT DO!!!), I'll consider long term maintenance, but that time is not now. I hope you understand.
Anybody else have any thoughts on my first post? I'd love to hear 'em! Thanx!
~G
I totally respect your POV, I do. But I never took my recovery seriously whenever I got clean before. I'd just toodle along, clean for a while, going to meetings (to satisfy all those around me) then I'd use again, 'cuz I'm in control (HA!) So I'm going to give "taking my recovery seriously" a shot this time once I'm clean of everything, including Bupe, and see what I can attain that way. I just need to be clean first. I feel dirty as can be on Bupe, can you understand that? I neeeeeeeeeeeed to be clean. My very soul is screaming for it, and I KNOW I can do it if I actually try this time. As I said, I never took recovery seriously before, now I do, and that is a MAJOR change in me. Even my family, who've had many years of listening to addicts baloney, say that there's something different in me. I am NOT in control, and I know that now. I never did before. Maybe someday, if I fail again (which I WILL NOT DO!!!), I'll consider long term maintenance, but that time is not now. I hope you understand.
Anybody else have any thoughts on my first post? I'd love to hear 'em! Thanx!
~G
Sorry for replying again Gregg! BUT I DO TOTALLY know how you feel! I am just worried about the fact that you might STILL be in pain, and the brain can sometimes play TERRIBLE tricks on us and make the pain worse - as it is kind of like a recovery date on your computer "When did this problem need my help before? Oh yes when he was in pain" So all of a sudden WHAM you are in "brain pain" I just don't want that for you! IF you are fine with the pain, start taking LOTS of water, exercise, try and sweat - like a sauna or hot tub, do a liver cleanse! And this releases the built up drugs in the liver!
NOW IF you are in pain, I can TOTALLY recommend Tramacet! What my doctor did - after several months of embarrassing methadone - was to figure out how may Tramacet would equal an Oxycocet! so whe he did was like tricking the brain - as it thinks that IF you aren't in pain then the drugs are still working! So over 2/3 weeks, I would take 1 less Oxy and say 2 tramacet, and then took out another 1 and put in 1 to the 2 tramacet! And Then within a 2 week period you are off and the brain is NONE the wiser!
I will tell you Gregg that in the bottom of my purse is my Tallisman - it is my last HALF of my addiction - 1/2 pill of Oxycontin! And I will NEVER take it, and I will carry that for EVER1 as it shows that I DID IT! And I wish this for you too! Also Accupuncture and deep massage has been proven to cleanse the body! Urinate, Sweat, $2 this out of your body! Exercise - to keep your adrenalin up1
NOW IF you are in pain, I can TOTALLY recommend Tramacet! What my doctor did - after several months of embarrassing methadone - was to figure out how may Tramacet would equal an Oxycocet! so whe he did was like tricking the brain - as it thinks that IF you aren't in pain then the drugs are still working! So over 2/3 weeks, I would take 1 less Oxy and say 2 tramacet, and then took out another 1 and put in 1 to the 2 tramacet! And Then within a 2 week period you are off and the brain is NONE the wiser!
I will tell you Gregg that in the bottom of my purse is my Tallisman - it is my last HALF of my addiction - 1/2 pill of Oxycontin! And I will NEVER take it, and I will carry that for EVER1 as it shows that I DID IT! And I wish this for you too! Also Accupuncture and deep massage has been proven to cleanse the body! Urinate, Sweat, $2 this out of your body! Exercise - to keep your adrenalin up1
If you're okay with the pain, then I wouldn't even mess around taking any more suboxone. The first time I was on it I took it for 3 days and then stopped. I probably took 1.5 to 2 times what you did in those 3 days. I had absolutely no withdrawal symptoms. I'm quite surprised that you do. Regardless though if you mess around with it any longer it will only make things harder. Many people stay on it for long periods of time for maintenance, but if you don't want to go through hell getting off of it then 3 days only is the way to go.
I was really just planning on putting this info in another thread, but I guess I'll mention it here too. Although it only works for SOME people, Imodium AD is a mu opioid agonist that is really used as an anti-diarrheal, but can ease withdrawal symptoms. The reason that it is over the counter is that it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier in significant amounts, so it does not cause euphoria. However, it seems that in some people, including myself, large doses will allow enough to trickle through to ease withdrawals by a little to a lot. It may not work for you, but I'd say it's worth a shot.
I actually just tried this today. Now my symptoms were mild, but I took 8 (2mg) pills early this afternoon, and have been taking 4 more every 4 hours. I've been feeling better and better all day. I certainly didn't catch a buzz, but It wouldn't be a good thing if I did right now anyway. Apparently if you take it for like a week or more you can end up going through withdrawals from this, though I can't imagine they would be that bad. In any case, if you try this and it works, don't take it for too long.
Good luck.
I was really just planning on putting this info in another thread, but I guess I'll mention it here too. Although it only works for SOME people, Imodium AD is a mu opioid agonist that is really used as an anti-diarrheal, but can ease withdrawal symptoms. The reason that it is over the counter is that it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier in significant amounts, so it does not cause euphoria. However, it seems that in some people, including myself, large doses will allow enough to trickle through to ease withdrawals by a little to a lot. It may not work for you, but I'd say it's worth a shot.
I actually just tried this today. Now my symptoms were mild, but I took 8 (2mg) pills early this afternoon, and have been taking 4 more every 4 hours. I've been feeling better and better all day. I certainly didn't catch a buzz, but It wouldn't be a good thing if I did right now anyway. Apparently if you take it for like a week or more you can end up going through withdrawals from this, though I can't imagine they would be that bad. In any case, if you try this and it works, don't take it for too long.
Good luck.
I think you're doing great. Just taper yourself off the Suboxone at the level your Dr recommends and it sounds like it could be done more quickly than most but you didn't mention how much you started off with regarding the pain meds so I don't have any idea where you began. Sorry I couldn't provide any real advise but you do sound determined and erudite. All the best