vaginal discharge - thick white, not a yeast infection - aff

Exactly, I did this to kill the overgrowth of lactobacillus. All tests came back negative for yeast. Diflucan also didn't work. So my hypothesis was CV and the only way to get things back to normal was to kill them all off. Even if I were to get a yeast infection. That's fine. At least there's a cure for that. And anything is better than suffering with this forever.

Hi Adriana and other ladies of the board,

I'm going to try to keep this post as short as possible, so bear with me.
I purposefully haven't posted on here in a while because I wanted to wait until I found a cure or close to being cured before I gave you all an update. But since Adriana responded to one of my original posts, I thought I'd give you guys an update. Here goes...

The disappointing news: No, I am not cured.
The positive news: My symptoms are much better than they were when I last posted to the forum. I'll preface my next statements by saying that I don't have all the answers, but what I'm getting ready to say may not be what some of you want to hear, but for ME, it's been the truth. And now that I have the truth, I'm better equipped and prepared to tackle this issue from the inside out.

I've spent lots of money on failed homeopathic remedies (baking soda caps, PreSeed, Vit D3/Cal Liq) and Rx's (Diflucan, Terconazole) and either these things didn't work or were a temporary fix. I'm pretty sure I could have my MD degree by now with the countless hours and sleepless nights I've spent researching this issue, trying to determine the root cause and a cure. It wasn't until I discovered this forum that I began to put the pieces of the puzzle together and finally seek the help I so desperately needed.

I remember reading a few posts from women who seemed to think that this issue was connected to diet/gut health. I thought they were crazy!!! I thought to myself, "there's no way what I'm eating could have an effect on my itchy, irritated, discharg-y/pasty, dry vagina. What an asinine conclusion." But y'all, in my case, they were right! Slowly but surely, I began to realize that there were foods that would make the itching and burning worse. Pineapples, wine,Greek yogurt, bananas...basically anything sweet or any food high in carbs (because carbs break down into sugar) would cause my symptoms to spike. So I began to think, if there are foods that make my symptoms worse, then there must a connection between this issue and my diet. Furthermore, I had discovered that I had begun to develop food allergies and sensitivities to certain foods that I had always eaten with no problem. The more attention I paid to my overall health and well-being, the more I discovered this issue was systemic and that I would have to hire the help of a professional to help me tackle this issue.

(Ok, so much for a short post, LOL)

I sought the help of functional medicine/ND doctor who did a comprehensive stool analysis, along with blood work and it was discovered that I had low diversity of bacteria in my gut and that I have leaky gut syndrome (Google it if you're unfamiliar with it).

The overgrowth of the lactobacillus (the good bacteria) in the vagina was one way my body activated an auto-immune response. Because I have leaky gut (due to stress, the overuse of antibiotics, and a diet high in refined carbs), food particles, fungus and bacteria permeate the intestinal wall and enter into the blood stream. The body realizes that those things shouldn't be there, so it activates an auto-immune response to fight off the invaders. So, it will dispatch the good bacteria to fight off the stuff that shouldn't be there and if you're not careful, you'll end up with a bacterial imbalance in the gut, or if the imbalance occurs in the vagina, it can lead to an overgrowth of lactobacillus thus causing cytolytic vaginosis. My issue has gone on so long that I've developed a host of other issues that went unchecked for so long due to leaky gut (psoriasis, joint pain, back pain, moodiness, depression, anxiety, brain fog, low libido).

So, where am I today you ask? I no longer have the itching, irritation, swelling or burning that I used to have. I used to have to put something ON or IN my vagina every.single.day. Nope, not anymore. Since working with my ND, I haven't had to put anything on my vagina at all since about November or December 2017. I still have the discharge; however, when I went on an elimination diet and stopped eating sugar, grains, gluten, dairy and all processed foods for ALMOST 30 days, I noticed that my vaginal discharge was thinner and silkier, and not that thick, clumpy, pasty stuff. And best of all, no itching! I could finally stop having to stay so vigilant by keeping tubes of vaginal itch cream in the car and my purse for fear that I'd break out in a severe itch at any given moment. So yeah, the discharge was still there, but it wasn't nearly as much as what it used to be and my symptoms were definitely getting better. I believe had I stayed on the diet a little longer, I probably could've healed my leaky gut and have been completely cured by now. I just love cocktails and cupcakes and...pasta...so then there's that :(

I take two quality probiotics to diversify the bacterial strains in my gut, I take emulsified liquid drops of vitamins ADEK, Vitamin B complex and Vitamin C. I also eat a forkful of fermented veggies and I just started on L-glutamine to help heal and seal my gut. I want to stress the importance of eating a clean diet. You can take all the top of the line supplements, but if you're still eating foods that cause an inflammatory response, you're going to still have this issue. I'm not happy that I had to give up my favorites foods, but it's worth getting my vagina back to the way it used to be and to enjoy life again. This issue has been so debilitating for me, but I'm glad I'm on the path to recovery.

-Blessings

Sorry, this is Phoebe who wrote that long response, btw. I didn't log in, so that's why my response was posted as "Guest".

Hi Pheobe,
Thank you so much for posting today! I'm happy you are feeling better. I am still thinking there is something else that's causing all this. How could we both (and many others) get leaky gut right after sex with a new partner? It just doesn't make sense. Plus I already eat super clean, Paleo mainly. I think there is something like H. Pylori or MRSA or something that has permeated all of the surrounding tissues; vaginal, gut, urethra. Some bacteria or organism that's destroying our mucous membranes. And I think it originates in the mouth. It makes sense that anything that can reside in the mouth can also be spread to the vagina and bladder. And this guy had some partial fake teeth too because he has some teeth knocked out in a sports accident. I really think it's some bacteria that is not routinely checked for with vaginitis and UTIs. Search "bacteria found in the mouth". It's shocking. And they barely just started checking for Ureaplasma/Mycoplasma. The doctors are obviously clueless. My last one was completely careless, clueless about tests, and made no sincere effort to diagnose or even think about what I might have. He said I looked fine. It was a joke. So it's no surprise that we will be the ones to figure this out. Unless you have a burning vagina and it's ruining your life, you don't really have much motivation to find the cause and the cure.

There is some pathogen down there that doctors don't consider a pathogen. That's what I firmly believe. Such as in the case where lactobacillus was determined the pathogen in a women's UTI. She took most of the antibiotics that we took with no improvement. And then after extensive testing they isolated delbrueckii lactobacillus as the infecting pathogen. Search: "Lactobacillus delbrueckii as the Cause of Urinary Tract Infection". I found this article when I started wondering if lactobacillus can also infect the bladder. And sure enough, it can. Lactobacillus is actually considered a contaminant in urine samples. Can you believe that? That's why it doesn't cross the doctor's mind that this is what might be causing the symptoms.

There is also a theory that we can become allergic to a Candida antigen after a yeast infection. So even though the candida has cleared, our body is still reacting to the Candida antigen. I actually had allergies and asthma as a kid and slightly now. I also get hives when I'm stressed or anxious. So I wouldn't doubt something like this could be the cause in my case.

I do think there is a correlation with leaky gut and other symptoms that can easily be caused by depression and anxiety. But I do not believe that it is the cause of this. There is simply a pathogen that is not being considered and/or recognized. Just like mucous in the nose and throat occurs when our body is trying to flush out a pathogen, the same is happening with our vagina. It's very obvious.

I was actually under tons of stress a week before the onset of the symptoms. I broke up with the guy due to unfortunate circumstances and we were both very upset and under chronic stress. But the most stressful thing was this vaginal infection and thinking it might be HSV2. I was panicking on a scale of 10 and had a constant uneasy feeling for months. I waited 4 months before taking the type specific HSV 1/2 test, just to make sure I gave it enough time for an accurate result. It was negative. But I will never truly relax until I find out what is causing this.

Another thing I do remember. Even though we hadn't had sex or oral on me yet, (i waited about 8 months), we would do other things. I think once he may have touched me with dirty hands. It was just a gut feeling. Right after that, something felt off. Nothing really alarming, but maybe a little irritated, and slight fishy smell. Very very slight. Right after shower if I tried to find it, I could. I thought, hmmm that's weird. Let me just wait until after my period so it will adjust and clean. It was slightly there for a few months, but no weird discharge or itching or burning. I just know my body and that wasn't normal. So I don't know if that was the cause and it just flared up later due to the stress having lowered my immune system, or if it was the most recent oral. I really believe it was something in the saliva.

I'm trying to give as many details for anyone else who may be reading this. That way you can compare to your situation and maybe let us know if there is a significant common denominator. Anyone who is posting should include as many details as they can remember, even if you don't think it may be important. Thank you!!

Search "Helicobacter pylori infection transmitted sexually via oral-genital contact: a hypothetical model"

I'm sure it's something like this. And by the way, H. Pylori is extremely difficult to kill. It takes 2 or more different antibiotics. So that could easily explain why the standard antibiotics have not eradicated our infection.

Here's an excerpt from the article:

Proposed transmission mode Transmission to the female genital tract would occur during sexual activities such as oro-genital sex. Because H pylori has been found and cultured from the saliva and mouth there exists a possibility that H pylori may be transmitted from infected person to non-infected person via kissing or other sexual activities.38,39 Namavar et al39 detected H pylori from the saliva, tongue, palate, and cheek. Normally, H pylori colonises the columnar epithelium of the stomach, but if H pylori can survive on the squamous epithelium in the mouth, then is it not possible that it may also inhabit the squamous epithelium of the vaginal tract? Anatomical changes such as cervical ectropion (columnar epithelium on the exocervix) may enhance the possibility of H pylori colonisation.40

Here's a very interesting article!! Apparently H. Pylori harbors inside yeast. Maybe that's why we have yeast-like symptoms. And maybe we need a PCR test rather than a culture to detect it. If you have insurance and can be tested for this, I would highly recommend it! I will be doing that ASAP.

Search: Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori) as sexually transmitted infection causing urethritis and BV

"There is some evidence of a transmission between the mouth and genitals, and theoretical links. H. pylori colonises yeast in the vagina, and has been associated with biofilm formation. It could be a cause of bacterial vaginosis that resists treatment."

"Why hasn’t an H. pylori species been found in the vagina during vaginal swab cultures?
Taking bacteria from the vagina via a swab and then culturing the bacteria is one of the ways we commonly test for sexually transmitted infections and vaginal infections. The reason we may not have found H. pylori – despite the possibility that it exists in the vagina – is that H. pylori species are hard to grow in culture.

This might be because the colonies are very small in the vagina, and that in the culture, competition from other bacteria may influence outcomes of culture. The number of H.pylori in the stomach are three times more than in the mouth, so using stomach culturing techniques for oral H. pylori isn’t going to be enough. We need to adjust the testing so it is more sensitive to small colonies."

Hi Adriana,
You may be on to something with your theory behind H. Pylori or some other SIBO infection. My stool analysis did not find any of that (thank God), but that doesn't mean it couldn't be residing in another area of our bodies like candida can often be found.

Our stories are very similar and you're right, I did not get leaky gut after sleeping with someone new. I discovered that my gut issues actually began about 4 yrs prior, but the symptoms were so subtle that I didn't think anything of it (skin rash, itchy scalp, fluctuations in libido). On occasion I would notice a slight, I mean VERY slight change in my dischage and a little odor at times, but I figured maybe because I was turning 30, that that's what happens. So, the change in flora in my vagina had already begun to take place before this issue became full blown, which is when I had unprotected sex with a new partner. So with an already unstable vaginal flora (due to leaky gut) and then the introduction of new semen, my vagina went into attack mode by overproducing lactobacillus and has been fighting ever since. So the question then becomes what is causing this to happen? I had to take a deeper dive into the gut. It's where many diseases/conditions stem from-through a compromised immune system and gut dysbiosis.

You mentioned that you eat pretty clean. What probiotics are you taking? I've taken various kinds with no results, but it wasn't until my ND recommended that I take a quality soil based probiotic that I began to achieve results. Keep in mind that 75% of the body's immunity is in the gut. No matter where this thing originated, we have to turn our attention back to the gut. We have to strengthen our immune system to fight this thing off whether it's some kind of pathogenic bacteria or fungal infection to rebalance the vaginal flora. Everybody may not have to do this, but I've had this for a very long time, and it wasn't until I addressed those issues that I began to finally get better.

One final thought: the more anibiotics you take, the more you a) kill off the good bacteria to ward off the bad stuff and b) prolong your healing. If for any reason you must take an antibiotic, follow up with a quality probiotic after treatment to repopulate the gut.

-Blessings

Hi Phoebe,
Yes, I agree with you that these are all interconnected. However, I still believe that all of these symptoms are being caused by something that is damaging the stomach lining (and/or vaginal lining), hence the leaky gut theory. Actually leaky gut is not an actual disease, rather a set of symptoms that are grouped together. I think there is a correlation, but it's not the cause. Something made the lining get damaged. H. Pylori is difficult to culture and may require a PRC method. But even worse, doctors are not looking for it as a pathogen in vaginitis.

"Leaky gut, or "intestinal permeability," as Victor explained, is a condition in which the lining of the small intestine becomes damaged, causing undigested food particles, toxic waste products and bacteria to "leak" through the intestines and flood the blood stream."

"Leaky gut syndrome is a hypothetical, medically unrecognized condition. ... Proponents claim that a "leaky gut" causes chronic inflammation throughout the body that results in a wide range of conditions, including chronic fatigue syndrome, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, migraines, multiple sclerosis, and autism."

I have allergies too, but I've never had anything like this before. There is definitely a clear explanation. There are also many men who suffer with urethritis after oral or sex, who go on for years being undiagnosed. There has to be cause.

Please search these. (I don't think we can put links here.) I think you will be shocked:

"Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori) as sexually transmitted infection causing urethritis and BV"

"Is your recurrent BV caused by H. pylori?"

Regarding probiotics. During the course of this nightmare, I have tried everything. But have read from all these women how nothing ultimately works. If there is discharge, it means the body is trying to get rid of something. (and irritation and swelling is a sign of a pathogen present). And no amount of probiotics will kill it. It needs intense treatment, especially if it's H. Pylori. I never took probiotics before, and I was always perfect. Our caveman ancestor didn't have probiotics either. We shouldn't have to take probiotics, unless there is something that is disturbing the balance. And that something is obviously still there. We just haven't found out what it is. Please have a look at those articles and even search H. Pylori vaginitis, etc. Let me know what you think! :)

Hi! I too had this and finally found an answer. Search for cytolytic vaginosis. Hope this helps you too! :)

I've had this problem and the doctor said that everything was fine. I would advise everyone to try Pro-b pills. They helped my white pasty discharge go back to normal clear discharge and helped my vagina tighten and sex better as well. That white discharge can help loosen your walls to where sex doesn't feel as good as it should

I’m having the same problem!!! I’m 25 had this issue for atleast 2 years... I thought I was completely alone and crazy... it has played a huge roll on effecting mine and my husbands sex life... I finally got off of my birth control for about 3 months now thinking that was the problem but it is still happening, that could still be the problem until my body gets regulated after getting off the birth control.. and every doctor I see things I’m crazy..

Yes, but did you heal it? And if so, how?

Everyone I have seen on here have tried everything for this and it didn't help. I actually believe that Cytolytic Vaginosis is still just a symptom of an underlying pathogen. Basically the lactobacillus overgrow and get deformed and produce lactic acid and hydrogen peroxide. Why do they do that? To kill off invading bacteria to keep the vaginal balance normal. So if the lactobacilius are overgrowing out of control this way, it means they are trying very hard to fight some invading pathogen. So yes, lactobacillus can overgrow, but it's not the disease itself. That's why doctors cant really define it and why sitz baths only provide temporary relief and not a cure. Because the real problem is a bacteria (or virus) which has not been treated. My theory is H. Pylori or some other very difficult to eradicate bacteria. Please let me know if the doctor diagnosed you with Cytolytic Vaginosis after a wet mount microscopy and if you were able to get back to normal. We are all desperate to find a cure. Thank you.

DEAR FELLOW SUFFERERS - TRY THIS: For anyone who has insurance and a doctor who thinks outside the box and really wants to help, try to get an H. Pylori PCR test done on your discharge. If they can test gastric juices, then they can test vaginal secretions. However, there is still no formal test for this, therefore no test code for it at the labs. So most doctors will just say, oh well, that doesn't exist. Worst case, you can do a stool sample which is very accurate for detecting H. Pylori, and just carefully add some of your discharge to the sample when your symptoms are at their worst. There is mucous naturally occurring in stool, so therefore it wont be out of the ordinary to find the "mucous" that we add, in the stool sample. However, theoretically, the sample should still test positive if H. Pylori is present ;) . If your doctor is closed-minded, you can just do this without telling him/her. Unfortunately, we need a work around to find the real pathogen that is causing this. And regular aerobic/anaerobic genial cultures don't test for H. Pylori. Kindly report back to this forum with your findings. It could help thousands of people who are suffering unnecessarily!

By the way, BioReference is an amazing lab that has accessible customer service and very good prices for self pay cash patients without insurance. As long as you can get a script from any doctor for the stool test, you can go to a BioReference lab and the test will only cost about $20. Just because we don't have insurance, doesn't mean we should have to suffer with this forever.

TO ALL THE POSTERS HERE: Please let us know what triggered this. Most people are just saying they have it and/or these symptoms, but do not list any details on how they got it, or after which circumstances. There has to be a common denominator. Was it after sex with a new partner? After oral sex? Anything that stands out in your mind about the new partner that seemed kind of "off". How long after the encounter did you notice the symptoms? This will be extremely helpful in trying to find out the cause of this. Thank you!

Hello!

I have vaginal problems now about 5 months. Lots of tests done, but never found nothing. Burning vagina opening and me cryng every day (dicharge exactly as you all described here). Tests showed that I have many lactobacillus, what is "normal". I live in Estonia (sry my bad English) and I have incurance.

At the same time, I've had problems with digestion, diarrhea and gas ... so I asked a GP to test a stool. Today I got the answer that the Helicobacter pylori is positive. Problems with the upper stomach I have never been (no heartburn or anything).

Can this bacteria really cause my vaginal problems? They have not found anything else either. Maybe really the two things are connected? The GP gave me a visit to the gastroenterologist. I will go 9th of June.

If the gastroenterologist determines how to treat that Helicobacter, can it also help to kill what may be in the vagina?

(I have been together with my husband for 18 years. My problem started overnight. I remember that he went to a dentist before and we like oral sex...)

I hope that this c**p will end at one time ...

Katy