I also have this condition on L4 & L5. I've had 3 shots in the back which did not help. Physical therapy has not helped. I am looking forward to surgery to relieve the pain in my leg. My surgeon states he uses spacers with screws to relieve the presure on the nerves.
Hi.
Sorry to hear about your problems. I totally understand. There is an earlier thread where I had described my condition, the agony, the surgery, the relief and ongoing physiotherapy. There is a good chance of recovery with surgery, but your surgeon needs to tell you the aftercare details as well. So that you are mentally prepared. The surgery puts your bones and nerves in the right position, but the whole of your skeleton and muscle structure has suffered adverse effects and takes time and physical therapy to heal. Speak to the doctor to be sure that you will get the support you need with pain relief meds, and be prepared to work on your body diligently to remind your muscles and bones what they should be doing to keep you upright. For me the post surgical pain on a scale of 1-100 was -20!! yes, that's minus 20; compared to same 1-100 scale pre-surgery, my pain was 500!! Off the scale. My life was at a standstill!! From the moment of coming out of anaesthetic sleep till now- about 9 weeks now, I have NEVER had the horrible horrible pain I had before. I could stand upright from the very day following. It hurt to, but it had been explained to me that I had taught myself to be crooked to cope with pain, and needed to unteach my body. We are well on the way, and needing less than half the pain relief meds needed at the start. I now have intense physio- 1hr long- twice a week- racked up from 30min gentle stretches and massages- and must do certain exercises and stretches everyday. This has become tiresome!! which only means to me that I am stronger and so so much better. :-)
The surgery itself sounds like what your surgeon has described. These are all made of titanium. A few post x-rays show that this went well.
I also took the offer, months before surgery, to have this infiltration to the spine. It is usually done in highly sterile conditions. The thing was for me, I couldn't put my body in the position they needed, to reach the point they needed! It should altogether take about 5mins. With me it took about 15, and many tries. In and out, in and out! Sounds awful I know, but the whole area is numbed before they begin, and without my say so they would have aborted. This painrelief lasted about 4 months for me ( I was told 6) and also could only be repeated twice. After that, the doctor adviced that the risk of blood thinning becomes too high. I was also asked to try physical therapy before surgery. The therapist looked at my x-rays and told me on the first day the first day that they could not do much for me with, and wondered why I had been referred at all!! But we kept at it for about a month and a half. If anything it did more harm. So the way for me was surgery. I haven't regretted one moment since then. Are you comfortable with your surgeon? Can you discuss freely with him? Will he let you speak with another doctor in this field? Show him your x-rays and MRIs- just for another opinion? These are all things you should think of doing before surgery. I wish you all the very best!!
Sorry to hear about your problems. I totally understand. There is an earlier thread where I had described my condition, the agony, the surgery, the relief and ongoing physiotherapy. There is a good chance of recovery with surgery, but your surgeon needs to tell you the aftercare details as well. So that you are mentally prepared. The surgery puts your bones and nerves in the right position, but the whole of your skeleton and muscle structure has suffered adverse effects and takes time and physical therapy to heal. Speak to the doctor to be sure that you will get the support you need with pain relief meds, and be prepared to work on your body diligently to remind your muscles and bones what they should be doing to keep you upright. For me the post surgical pain on a scale of 1-100 was -20!! yes, that's minus 20; compared to same 1-100 scale pre-surgery, my pain was 500!! Off the scale. My life was at a standstill!! From the moment of coming out of anaesthetic sleep till now- about 9 weeks now, I have NEVER had the horrible horrible pain I had before. I could stand upright from the very day following. It hurt to, but it had been explained to me that I had taught myself to be crooked to cope with pain, and needed to unteach my body. We are well on the way, and needing less than half the pain relief meds needed at the start. I now have intense physio- 1hr long- twice a week- racked up from 30min gentle stretches and massages- and must do certain exercises and stretches everyday. This has become tiresome!! which only means to me that I am stronger and so so much better. :-)
The surgery itself sounds like what your surgeon has described. These are all made of titanium. A few post x-rays show that this went well.
I also took the offer, months before surgery, to have this infiltration to the spine. It is usually done in highly sterile conditions. The thing was for me, I couldn't put my body in the position they needed, to reach the point they needed! It should altogether take about 5mins. With me it took about 15, and many tries. In and out, in and out! Sounds awful I know, but the whole area is numbed before they begin, and without my say so they would have aborted. This painrelief lasted about 4 months for me ( I was told 6) and also could only be repeated twice. After that, the doctor adviced that the risk of blood thinning becomes too high. I was also asked to try physical therapy before surgery. The therapist looked at my x-rays and told me on the first day the first day that they could not do much for me with, and wondered why I had been referred at all!! But we kept at it for about a month and a half. If anything it did more harm. So the way for me was surgery. I haven't regretted one moment since then. Are you comfortable with your surgeon? Can you discuss freely with him? Will he let you speak with another doctor in this field? Show him your x-rays and MRIs- just for another opinion? These are all things you should think of doing before surgery. I wish you all the very best!!
Just wanted to confirm what upright is saying the pain scale of things was nothing compared to what I was suffering before surgery. Its a discomfort and its localised to the wound and obviously you are going to be tender, I think its more about how it affects your day to day life and the initial anxiety , but looking back its fine.
10 months on after fusion Im walking straighter every day, just when you thinks thats it Im done recovering you notice you have improved a bit more as far as my postures concerned and also you have to remember your body has adjusted to compensate as somebody else previously mentioned so you have to adjust back again and that means discipline stretching and exercises to build. That said I havent been too strict with myself and have progressed well.
Just as a note they couldnt fit the cage spacer due to the nerves around my particular spine and didnt correct the grade two step, but the two screws were implanted and it all seems good to me!
35 male, UK NHS.
10 months on after fusion Im walking straighter every day, just when you thinks thats it Im done recovering you notice you have improved a bit more as far as my postures concerned and also you have to remember your body has adjusted to compensate as somebody else previously mentioned so you have to adjust back again and that means discipline stretching and exercises to build. That said I havent been too strict with myself and have progressed well.
Just as a note they couldnt fit the cage spacer due to the nerves around my particular spine and didnt correct the grade two step, but the two screws were implanted and it all seems good to me!
35 male, UK NHS.
Hello all,
I am a 20 year old male and have been suffering from extensive chronic pain for the better part of 3 years now as a result of a grade 3 spondylolisthesis. After trying what seemed to be every know spondy treatment in existence, I finally came to the decision to go ahead with a lower lumbar laminectomy (posterior i believe) about 7 months ago, and have since noticed many improvements in my overall level of pain and energy output. This being said, I still have significant levels of pain most days.
- For those considering surgery as an option, just know that there are other options and surgery should not be the automatic answer, as the specifics of the spondylolisthesis are unique to the individual. Despite the mixed feelings that I may have regarding the outcome of my own surgery, I still believe that it is not only the right decision in many cases, but that it is the ONLY solution. Talk to a medical professional who can give you an honest opinion, or at least refer you to someone who will have an honest opinion on proper treatment. They will work with you and together you can come to a decision as to whether or not surgery is right for you. (Sorry to sound like the end of a Lunesta commercial there, but i really mean it)
MY SUGGESTED COURSE OF TREATMENT BEFORE SURGERY
When I first began to have pain I went to a chiropractor for adjustments and electro-muscle therapy.
When this was no longer enough, I visited a sport medicine doctor, who was the first person able to diagnose my condition and offer some suggestions on planned course of action.
I next visited a pain management specialist who started with various pain medications and later on to series of epidural injections.
- "Lower Lumbar Facet Block" This is no simple doctors office injection, but it is a relatively simple outpatient procedure that usually doesnt take much longer than 10 minutes. They offer anesthesia, but the procedure is so short that I always opted to just endure the pain so i wouldnt have to be sedated for the rest of the day. They offered temporary relief but usually faded within a few days.
- "Radiofrequency" After a number of Facet Blocks, I was recommended to have a radiofrequency, where they insert a needle into your spinal column and emit microwave-like frequencies that actually kill certain nerve endings, thereby eliminating pain. While these gave me a much higher level of relief and lasted a much greater length of time than the facet blocks, I MUST WARN, the procedure can be incredibly painful, and you can only get one side of the back done at once.... anesthesia would probably be a smart idea on this one. (also i later found out that they only target a very small nerve in the spine with this procedure.... but most people with spondylolisthesis are suffering from their entire spinal cord being pinched, so I kind of felt like this procedure was needlessly painful... might be a good idea to skip out on this one entirely)
- And finally, if the previous ones dont eliminate your pain, you can always give cortisone steroid injections a shot. These injections were similar to the Facet Blocks but offered a much greater level of relief. However these werent really a long term option, so when my pain continued, I finally decided to go ahead and get the spinal fusion surgery.
Even though these injections really only offered mild relief from my pain, I still very seriously recommend giving them a shot (no pun intended). Ive talked to so many people who went with the injections and that was all it really took to cure their pains. Full on spondylolisthesis is a slightly different story though, so if you find yourself in a similar boat as myself, remain patient and hopefully their will be some options. I am currently trying to find alternative routes to managing my pain other than pain medication, as im sure you all may know the ugly face of living the rest of your life developing your raging pill habits. Some things that have worked for me are:
- Physical Therapy
- Chiropractor
- Deep Muscle Massage Therapy
- Extensive stretching
- balancing my diet and eating higher energy foods
- POSTURE: I cant stress enough how important it this is. When I focus on my postural alignment, my pain decreases enormously. Its hard to restregthen the muscles to hold your spine in place, but with diligence, and the help of a physical therapist, your pain will go down.
If you are anywhere around Cleveland, Ohio and looking for good doctors, I recommend:
Joshua Goldner - pain management
Nicholas Ahn - spinal surgeon
This can be a very serious medical condition and the road to recovery is rough to say the least. To all who are losing patience with doctors and hospitals in general, I encourage you to keep hope and faith in the medical profession; theyre far from perfect, but it really is nice having somebody else fighting on your team when you really need it most.
Hope this all can be of help
I am a 20 year old male and have been suffering from extensive chronic pain for the better part of 3 years now as a result of a grade 3 spondylolisthesis. After trying what seemed to be every know spondy treatment in existence, I finally came to the decision to go ahead with a lower lumbar laminectomy (posterior i believe) about 7 months ago, and have since noticed many improvements in my overall level of pain and energy output. This being said, I still have significant levels of pain most days.
- For those considering surgery as an option, just know that there are other options and surgery should not be the automatic answer, as the specifics of the spondylolisthesis are unique to the individual. Despite the mixed feelings that I may have regarding the outcome of my own surgery, I still believe that it is not only the right decision in many cases, but that it is the ONLY solution. Talk to a medical professional who can give you an honest opinion, or at least refer you to someone who will have an honest opinion on proper treatment. They will work with you and together you can come to a decision as to whether or not surgery is right for you. (Sorry to sound like the end of a Lunesta commercial there, but i really mean it)
MY SUGGESTED COURSE OF TREATMENT BEFORE SURGERY
When I first began to have pain I went to a chiropractor for adjustments and electro-muscle therapy.
When this was no longer enough, I visited a sport medicine doctor, who was the first person able to diagnose my condition and offer some suggestions on planned course of action.
I next visited a pain management specialist who started with various pain medications and later on to series of epidural injections.
- "Lower Lumbar Facet Block" This is no simple doctors office injection, but it is a relatively simple outpatient procedure that usually doesnt take much longer than 10 minutes. They offer anesthesia, but the procedure is so short that I always opted to just endure the pain so i wouldnt have to be sedated for the rest of the day. They offered temporary relief but usually faded within a few days.
- "Radiofrequency" After a number of Facet Blocks, I was recommended to have a radiofrequency, where they insert a needle into your spinal column and emit microwave-like frequencies that actually kill certain nerve endings, thereby eliminating pain. While these gave me a much higher level of relief and lasted a much greater length of time than the facet blocks, I MUST WARN, the procedure can be incredibly painful, and you can only get one side of the back done at once.... anesthesia would probably be a smart idea on this one. (also i later found out that they only target a very small nerve in the spine with this procedure.... but most people with spondylolisthesis are suffering from their entire spinal cord being pinched, so I kind of felt like this procedure was needlessly painful... might be a good idea to skip out on this one entirely)
- And finally, if the previous ones dont eliminate your pain, you can always give cortisone steroid injections a shot. These injections were similar to the Facet Blocks but offered a much greater level of relief. However these werent really a long term option, so when my pain continued, I finally decided to go ahead and get the spinal fusion surgery.
Even though these injections really only offered mild relief from my pain, I still very seriously recommend giving them a shot (no pun intended). Ive talked to so many people who went with the injections and that was all it really took to cure their pains. Full on spondylolisthesis is a slightly different story though, so if you find yourself in a similar boat as myself, remain patient and hopefully their will be some options. I am currently trying to find alternative routes to managing my pain other than pain medication, as im sure you all may know the ugly face of living the rest of your life developing your raging pill habits. Some things that have worked for me are:
- Physical Therapy
- Chiropractor
- Deep Muscle Massage Therapy
- Extensive stretching
- balancing my diet and eating higher energy foods
- POSTURE: I cant stress enough how important it this is. When I focus on my postural alignment, my pain decreases enormously. Its hard to restregthen the muscles to hold your spine in place, but with diligence, and the help of a physical therapist, your pain will go down.
If you are anywhere around Cleveland, Ohio and looking for good doctors, I recommend:
Joshua Goldner - pain management
Nicholas Ahn - spinal surgeon
This can be a very serious medical condition and the road to recovery is rough to say the least. To all who are losing patience with doctors and hospitals in general, I encourage you to keep hope and faith in the medical profession; theyre far from perfect, but it really is nice having somebody else fighting on your team when you really need it most.
Hope this all can be of help
Hey
Iam due to have surgery next month and I am so scared. Your message really calmed me down. The vast majority of the other messages are horrible and have made me a million times more scared.
When you woke up from the operation were you in loads of pain and how long before you could go back work? And how long until you could travel in a car?
Thanks, Lauren
Iam due to have surgery next month and I am so scared. Your message really calmed me down. The vast majority of the other messages are horrible and have made me a million times more scared.
When you woke up from the operation were you in loads of pain and how long before you could go back work? And how long until you could travel in a car?
Thanks, Lauren
Hello Lauren
Sorry I've just noticed your post!
Well if you've had your op I hope it went well!
Well just quickly to say its six weeks until you drive, you are a bit inmobile in the way that you move slowly and carefully for the first four weeks in particular I would say. As for work I actually changed jobs before I went back I had a case for constructive dismissal and also required lifting. To be honest I don't ever want to go back to a job thay requires any regular lifting as I'm sure you can appreciate.
I honestly say don't be scared of the self administration codiene dose yourself let your body settle for a few days in hospital then get moving around. Its surprising how quickly you can heal. Microwave meals, raise your chair and bed if needed on blocks or books to make life easier. Get yourself prepared so that those first few days you just concentrate on you amd before you know it they are taking your dressing off!
I'm at nearly 11 months now I do some light jogging my fitness is still not back to what it was 2 years ago but I can walk miles in a day ok work full time rough and tumble with my kids you get the idea. With out any pain!! Compared to everyday all day til I felt soo depressed! You forget how bad it was sometimes.
All the best sap
After the op going over bumps in the road in the car was tendor being taken home.
You are going to know you've had an op but you know I think the hardest part is how it effects your life as you are in recovery. You just can't do what you did before as fast as you did. But remember its your first steps on the road to feeling better. Stay positive. Sap
Thanks everyone for your posts. I am scheduled for spinal fusion in May and after reading your messages have decided to cancel my surgery. I have spondylolesthesis of the L5 grade 3 also. I am in constant pain, but it is tolerable without medication. I take Aleve for pain most days but it doesn't help very much. The epidurals really do help for a short time (like a month at a time) and are well worth it. I have to get the injections under anesthesia at an outpatient surgery center because they freak me out too. Having the epidural done under anesthesia is easy and I feel great when I wake up. I only wish the relief from the epidurals lasted longer. I feel like I can be active again for a short time and I feel much less tired. I am always amazed at how fatigued I am because of the constant pain. When I am not in pain, I feel much less tired and am generally happier. It is no fun to live life this way and at 42 I am too old to live like an old woman. But I honestly can tolerate my pain and do not think I am ready for surgery, possible complications, a year long recovery, or something going wrong. Next I will try getting another epidural and physical therapy to strengthen my core muscles. I am hoping my slip doesn't get worse, but if it does, I will reconsider surgery.
Hi Jason I'm in the same spot as u :-( I'm so sorry and know 100% how u feel!!
I have just been told that the Spinal fusion op is my only option and I'm sh*t scared
Dont be scared the surgery is common place these days thousands are undertaken every year. There are risks as with any surgery but hey crossing the road has risks, you ll be fine. Sap.
To Jason3552,
Your situation seems a lot like what I had gone through in the past four years. I started having back pain during school from sitting so much. I went to the doctor to find out that I had spondlolethesis on the L5 and S1. I got it taken care of and the pain subsided. I had flare ups periodically that resulted in me missing school and many other things. Each flare up got progressively worse from back pain to back pain and numbness and pain from the damaged nerve. Over four years, I dealt with the pain and put off surgery. I had the pain so long, that I wondered how bad the pain was, like am I weak, or is the pain really severe. I got a flare up that did not go away. I had to go on home instruction. My leg was weak and I was disabled. I decided to get surgery. The surgery went just as planned. They had to replace one of my disks and they removed a bone; they also fused my back. When I woke up fr surgery, I felt so amazing!!! My led had strength and the pain was gone. I didn't even take any pain medicine during my recovery in the hospital. I was walking around and climbing stairs the same day. It was the best decision I had made. I was in the hospital for 36 hours from arriving for registration to discharge. I feel so amazing now and I am free. I have to wear a brace still for four months because it takes four months to fuse. I am still healing. I had surgery on 4/4/2012. It is now 4/9 and I am walking 2.5 miles a day and feeling great. My insision isn't even fully healed. My muscles are healing and getting less sore every day. I am even allowed to take showers. I tried the alternatives like shots, chiropractor, and physical therapy. The shot did nothing except add to the pain (I have had 2 shots a treatment for three treatments). The shots are very unpleasant. I recovered from my flare up and resumed normal life. I continued to relapse for four years and continued the alternatives. The helped me temporarily but I always ended up getting treated. Also, I got worse every time I flared up. When I had my last flare up that only got worse and I was tired of the cycle of temporary good feeling and the flare up, I decided to get the surgery. If you have a cycle of pain and it continues to get worse, I would get surgery. If you haven't tried the alternatives, give them a try. When things got really bad this last time I took medicine until surgery, because I couldnt even sleep or stand up or sit. I took Neurontin (nerve pain), Wellbutrin (keep me awake/quit smoking), Nortrytaline (to sleep), and Flexoril (to relax my muscles and sleep). I hope this is helpful to you. ***this post is edited by moderator *** ***
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I have to agree that where you are always in cycles of ever worsening pain, I don't know what else will give you the relief that surgery will. Yes,there are some horror stories here, but there are also a number of real victories. I am also, again, one who is now living the real life benefit of surgery for this awful debilitating condition. I also couldn't walk, sland, sit, lie... I was at age 41, adviced to get into a wheelchair. I had surgery 2yrs later, this January. i now occassionally need Ibuprofen. Only. My singing career which was going so well, ended because of this trouble. It's not so easy to gig and tour when you can't stand up straight. Trouble in my back also meant my vocal range and dexterity was drastically compromised. Now, 3 months following surgery, I have had 4 really successful outings and a mini tour in N.W. Germany. I can play with my children, carry my 3 yr old and swing her about- this she never ever knew before... Shall I go on? I hope that you all still suffering can get the help you really really need. Good luck to all.
Oh dear, working a farm for a living and having this problem. No wonder you are freaking out. I'm 68 yrs old with a 1300 sq ft home on half an acre. House has another 500 sq ft finished. I have had lower back pain since an accident in 2000. My husband passed suddenly 14 months ago and I am so scared. How will I fare after the surgery? How can I keep this house? How could I move? I have no one to help me, so I do the best I can with meds. Had the shots in the lower back 5 times, PT, etc. Now my feet are going numb. I'm really nervous about putting screws in my lower back. I know this is an old post, but maybe by now you can tell me how you are doing with this. May God be with you to give you the strength to endure. This is not an easy life. Now with my husband gone I only have social security and that means I can't be hiring things done. Otherwise, I'm in very good health and want to do things that make life enjoyable. Hope you find this.
I feel with you both. I remember the tears and the real surprise at quickly I went downhill. And I recall that awful numbness in my feet and eventually, the whole right leg. I can only try from my experience to encourage you. I went the whole hog, and did all the non surgical things. Every specialist I saw, and I saw a number, adviced that my condition without surgery could only deteriorate, no matter what therapy. Some therapists told me the same. Years on, I lived the painful truth of their predictions. I got so ready for this dreaded surgery, and worked real hard at finding a surgeon I could trust. I also prayed a lot. My experience is that the recovery from this surgery has been less painful than from CS childbirth. I havr screws in my spine, a plate, the whole thing. From the moment I awoke post surgery, I felt the new SUPPORT I had in my spine. That's what this is. The ride home from hospital was not more uncomfortable than coming home after a NORMAL childbirth. I began physio after the incision was fully closed, but meanwhile everyone who knew me could see I was upright and more able than I'd been in years. I'd been warned that physio might set me back in thr beginning. Didn't happen. They started really gently, with massages, hot and cold therapy, etc. It was just whatmy body had been needing for so long. Then, after four weeks, I began physical therapy with special machines. There have been no setbacks. The exercises get more challenging as I get stronger. When I need, the other therapies are offered again to take care of stiffness etc. Ok, no doubt some don't have such a great time of it all, but for a non smoking, physically active adult, you will attain or surpass your former state of help with the right support. The most powerful thing perhaps, is that you must DEMYSTIFY the surgical procedures. So screws will be used... Find out exactly why. Exactly where, exactly how. Look at the screws, handle them. Take some home. Talk to them. Tell them to go only where they should and tell them you'll accept no less than their maximum benefit in your body. Go to a hospital and see and speak with patients who've just had this operationoperation. Find. books, go online. I. did all this and more. Sounds crazy? It worked for me. Get a model of your spine built according to ur x-rays. Then have different therapists and specialists and you, attempt to manipulate it into it's healthy position. For me, each one agreed it could only be done by dismantling and reassembling 1-2sections. These are cheaply built, and some people's insurance actually covers the cost, though mine didn't. The thing is, in the past I had pain without pause, and I couldn't see lasting benefit to anything I tried. Now, I need ibuprofen twice a day, I get a good workout with particular attention to back strengthening, twice a week, I can gig again, I can dance again, play with my three children, and I can't stop walking! Its three months since I had surgery. And it keeps getting better and better. Fear is the worst enemy. Conquer it. This surgery is these days common, and with high chanct of good recovery. Don't settle for this pain. There's much better available for you if you'll take it. God bless did all this and more. I got a model which was
Assembled tomirror my x rays. It was cheap to build and some healr insurance covers this. I asked therapists and specialists to manipulate it to it's correct position. It could only ever be done by reassembling one or to columns. I was always in pain and there was no positive change regardless. I now after surgery, have my life back. I csn gig, tour, dance. I can play withmy children, get a great targeted workout 2-3times a week. I take ibuprofen a couple of times a day. It's been three and a half months since surgery. I am NOT the same person. Fear is the real enemy. Conquer it. There's real help available. This surgery is delicate yes, but these days, commonplace. There is real chance for complete recovery. Fight the fear and win. God bless.