My 34 yr old aw a endroconologist yesterday for elevated tostrostone levels... Hair on her face bad skin in certain areas, tired all the time, and her underarms smells even after showering... 9 years ago she was diagnosed with adrenal gland problems by another endocronologist... This one humileated her saying she shouldnt be there, did she even kniow what an endroconologist does? He did a pelvic and ask her if anyone had ever told her she wasnt normal down their and she had no clitoris... His nurse was standing behind him rolling her eyes and shaking her head in pitty for my daughter and like the dr. was not treating her appropriately... Is it normal for a endroconologist to do a pelvic and tell the patient she is not normal.... what was he looking for... She has had many pelvic exams and paps and no one has ever acted as if anything was wrong... This was only a part of what she went through and she will never return to that Dr. again but does anyone have any input to help us understand what he was doing?
I think that she should go straight to hospital administration with a formal complaint. She will probably run into a code of silence, so don't be surprised. She may want to contact an attorney first. I'm sure that there would be several willing to pursue her complaint for her. There are two issues....Was he qualified or justified in doing the pelvic and was he ethical in his treatment or did his behavior cause the negative feelings that she described to you. No one would want to be treated that way and my guess is that he has done this before. In addition, she has a witness in the nurse. This is so sad for her, but she can prevent this for other women, which is important. Please keep us updated re: this situation.
I can provide insight. Back in 1998 I suffered from undiagnosed chronic muscle fatigue (that ultimately turned out neurological & autoimmune. I first saw a doctor who was both an internal MD & naturopath. At some point I had my testosterone levels taken & they were fairly low for 42 years of age. (Probably from the stress of desperately trying to keep my construction job while ailing physically).
I asked to go on testosterone replacement therapy, & the Naturopathic MD began asking lots of questions such as "have your testicles atrophied in recent years?" I answered "no". I thought he respected my judgement & powers if observation & I was in the clear. However, ater in the visit he ordered me (in the form if an imperative to drop my pants. I asked why, & he replied that he wanted to see if my testicles had shrunken. Just the notion of being ordered to drop my pants angered me, but I really wanted the testosterone, so I did. Predictably, my testicle size was "normal". I got the testosterone & was happy that prostate exams weren't a corequisite.
1999 a year after the MD/Naturopathic doctor left, I was still struggling with fatigue, & taking small amounts of thyroid & dessicated bovine adrenal supplements to elevate my cortisol levels. My allergist suggested that I see an endocrinologist to see if I had panhypopituitarism.
I saw a fat, elderly, Czechoslovakian endocrinologist in the same office building where my allergist.worked. Right from the start, he looked at my thyroid, testosterone & cortisol levels & told me I shouldn't have bothered coming, just as your daughter had been told. But now that I was there, the greedy old fart had to collect his fee, & do something to justify it. So he began a physical without telling me, by feeling the glands in my neck & working down. I took the opportunity to inquire about my unchanging BMI level. Stuck at exactly 22% regardless of intense bodybuilding -- never lower, as a 10 lb weight loss invariably meant a 2.2 lb loss of muscle, regardless of diet & intense weight training.
He shouted out declaratively, almost as if he were acting on the stage, "You are that way because YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH EXCERCISE!!" That coming from a fat, frail old man who doesn't know me, with NO personal knowledge of my struggle to get lean & mean, & who clearly looked as if he never did a push up in his life!
My blood was boiling, then he had the nerve to order me to drop my pants. I catapulted off the exam table got in his face & went ballistic. I made him feel his own mortality, & scared the "God Complex" right out of that arrogant bastard. It was more the remark about nit enough exercise, but ordering me to drop my pants immediately after that brazen insult? No!
The next week I went to a Southern NH Diabetes clinic for a second opinion from a young female endocrinologist who had a very masculine appearance. Same as before! She virtually berated me for coming, but because I was already booked she wanted to get paid, & went through the motions of examining me. I knew it was coming, instead of politely explaining that she wanted to check my testicles for atrophy, she wagged her finger at me and told me she was going to leave the room & I had to remove everything from the waste down & cover myself up with a sheet. I hated being talked down to like a child. The notion that her demeaner is routine, & men invariably comply. I won't repeat here what I said to her.
So my response to your daughter's ordeal (& I agree it's an ordeal) is no. 1 if they told her she shouldn't have come, than examining was a violation motivated in greed. She should've been sent home, no charge, if they were sincere. 2) it surprises me that unusual hair growth wasn't investigated further 3) lastly, a gonad exam is a routine part of an endocrinology exam. Gina's size & shape can give some insight into some conditions. But to do it routinely, without telling the patient upfront that they want to examine ovaries & testicles & not explain what it is they are looking for, & not proceeding with the patients consent & trust is reprehensible! Both your daughter & I were treated like a piece of meat to justify collecting unearned nsurance money.
I asked to go on testosterone replacement therapy, & the Naturopathic MD began asking lots of questions such as "have your testicles atrophied in recent years?" I answered "no". I thought he respected my judgement & powers if observation & I was in the clear. However, ater in the visit he ordered me (in the form if an imperative to drop my pants. I asked why, & he replied that he wanted to see if my testicles had shrunken. Just the notion of being ordered to drop my pants angered me, but I really wanted the testosterone, so I did. Predictably, my testicle size was "normal". I got the testosterone & was happy that prostate exams weren't a corequisite.
1999 a year after the MD/Naturopathic doctor left, I was still struggling with fatigue, & taking small amounts of thyroid & dessicated bovine adrenal supplements to elevate my cortisol levels. My allergist suggested that I see an endocrinologist to see if I had panhypopituitarism.
I saw a fat, elderly, Czechoslovakian endocrinologist in the same office building where my allergist.worked. Right from the start, he looked at my thyroid, testosterone & cortisol levels & told me I shouldn't have bothered coming, just as your daughter had been told. But now that I was there, the greedy old fart had to collect his fee, & do something to justify it. So he began a physical without telling me, by feeling the glands in my neck & working down. I took the opportunity to inquire about my unchanging BMI level. Stuck at exactly 22% regardless of intense bodybuilding -- never lower, as a 10 lb weight loss invariably meant a 2.2 lb loss of muscle, regardless of diet & intense weight training.
He shouted out declaratively, almost as if he were acting on the stage, "You are that way because YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH EXCERCISE!!" That coming from a fat, frail old man who doesn't know me, with NO personal knowledge of my struggle to get lean & mean, & who clearly looked as if he never did a push up in his life!
My blood was boiling, then he had the nerve to order me to drop my pants. I catapulted off the exam table got in his face & went ballistic. I made him feel his own mortality, & scared the "God Complex" right out of that arrogant bastard. It was more the remark about nit enough exercise, but ordering me to drop my pants immediately after that brazen insult? No!
The next week I went to a Southern NH Diabetes clinic for a second opinion from a young female endocrinologist who had a very masculine appearance. Same as before! She virtually berated me for coming, but because I was already booked she wanted to get paid, & went through the motions of examining me. I knew it was coming, instead of politely explaining that she wanted to check my testicles for atrophy, she wagged her finger at me and told me she was going to leave the room & I had to remove everything from the waste down & cover myself up with a sheet. I hated being talked down to like a child. The notion that her demeaner is routine, & men invariably comply. I won't repeat here what I said to her.
So my response to your daughter's ordeal (& I agree it's an ordeal) is no. 1 if they told her she shouldn't have come, than examining was a violation motivated in greed. She should've been sent home, no charge, if they were sincere. 2) it surprises me that unusual hair growth wasn't investigated further 3) lastly, a gonad exam is a routine part of an endocrinology exam. Gina's size & shape can give some insight into some conditions. But to do it routinely, without telling the patient upfront that they want to examine ovaries & testicles & not explain what it is they are looking for, & not proceeding with the patients consent & trust is reprehensible! Both your daughter & I were treated like a piece of meat to justify collecting unearned nsurance money.
I wrote that & I am replying to my own post now, I should be permanently logged in
It didn't end in New England at the Diabetes clinic. I soon moved to Malibu,. Because I learned at a very young age to be homophobic about male providers (subjected to sexual misconduct by a BU urologist, I feared having to get regular prostate exams to stay on testosterone. So as a precaution, I got a young, attractive blond female doctor affiliated with UCLA. (I didn't stay with her long enough to be forced into DREs by her. She was also Sean Penn's doctor.)
In the context of being apprehensive about seeing more specialists, I told her my story regarding the Czech endocrinologist rudeness. She defended him! Parroting word for word what I heard on a UCLA health segment on the news, she said the "fine art" of physical exams is diminishing. She asserted that it's every doctors right to discern testicle size to see what phase of the patient's development is, & she justified barking orders at patients to disrobe a necessity out if doctors valuable time constraints!
We argued vehemently, I said to her the endocrinologist could have just asked me if my testicles had atrophied, & I'd have told him they're normal. She snaps, "normal relative to what?" I could not deal with that condescension. Not a smart enough guy to be able to tell if my testicles have atrophied? Shouldn't trust work both ways? I wound up banned from UCLA Medical group for arguing with her.
Irinic, that I had to see a therapist for help, & he was working out of her sane office. He told me, "you were 100% right & she 100% wrong. You came to her with a concern, & instead of addressing your cincerns on your terms, she got defensive & defended her fraternity of physicians!" He also told me that his associates at that office were turkeys, & he recommended to me his personal physician. He garanteed me that I'd get respect, & I'd also get my testosterone without having to worry about the dreaded finger! He was right. That elderly orthopedist/ER physician was a decent guy, & even charged be in a sliding scale after my Cobra benefits expired. Too bad he retired.
The therapist told me my childhood experiences on the exam table left me with CSA symptoms (even though my pediatrician might have had good intentions. My 1976 encounter with a BU urologist was definitely sexual misconduct. He observed that I seemed to have too many inappropriate encounters with female providers, & mused (half jokingly) that it seemed almost a revictimization phenomenon
It didn't end in New England at the Diabetes clinic. I soon moved to Malibu,. Because I learned at a very young age to be homophobic about male providers (subjected to sexual misconduct by a BU urologist, I feared having to get regular prostate exams to stay on testosterone. So as a precaution, I got a young, attractive blond female doctor affiliated with UCLA. (I didn't stay with her long enough to be forced into DREs by her. She was also Sean Penn's doctor.)
In the context of being apprehensive about seeing more specialists, I told her my story regarding the Czech endocrinologist rudeness. She defended him! Parroting word for word what I heard on a UCLA health segment on the news, she said the "fine art" of physical exams is diminishing. She asserted that it's every doctors right to discern testicle size to see what phase of the patient's development is, & she justified barking orders at patients to disrobe a necessity out if doctors valuable time constraints!
We argued vehemently, I said to her the endocrinologist could have just asked me if my testicles had atrophied, & I'd have told him they're normal. She snaps, "normal relative to what?" I could not deal with that condescension. Not a smart enough guy to be able to tell if my testicles have atrophied? Shouldn't trust work both ways? I wound up banned from UCLA Medical group for arguing with her.
Irinic, that I had to see a therapist for help, & he was working out of her sane office. He told me, "you were 100% right & she 100% wrong. You came to her with a concern, & instead of addressing your cincerns on your terms, she got defensive & defended her fraternity of physicians!" He also told me that his associates at that office were turkeys, & he recommended to me his personal physician. He garanteed me that I'd get respect, & I'd also get my testosterone without having to worry about the dreaded finger! He was right. That elderly orthopedist/ER physician was a decent guy, & even charged be in a sliding scale after my Cobra benefits expired. Too bad he retired.
The therapist told me my childhood experiences on the exam table left me with CSA symptoms (even though my pediatrician might have had good intentions. My 1976 encounter with a BU urologist was definitely sexual misconduct. He observed that I seemed to have too many inappropriate encounters with female providers, & mused (half jokingly) that it seemed almost a revictimization phenomenon
Code of silence is right. Doctors operate with impunity because they have a Good complex, & unfortunately they look out after one another, not the patients. They are corrupt!
Suing doctors is almost impossible, even if you can afford a lawyer. Yes, endocrinologists are "qualified" to do pelvic exams, especially when testosterone & estrogen levels are involved. But under those circumstances & his behavior, he shouldn't be allowed to treat anyone see my reply to the OP, & my reply to my own reply
Suing doctors is almost impossible, even if you can afford a lawyer. Yes, endocrinologists are "qualified" to do pelvic exams, especially when testosterone & estrogen levels are involved. But under those circumstances & his behavior, he shouldn't be allowed to treat anyone see my reply to the OP, & my reply to my own reply