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In that case, then hire the person you think is the best person and the best fit for the job.
I'll try to remember to do my research before posting over here. I better break out the encyclopedias :) Silly me for being a conservative.
I better study up on my gallop polls and independent studies before I post what everyone knows goes on.
I know of one college I got turned away from that had I been black I would have gotten in.... I really didn't want to share that.... but barring a gallop poll result.... not easily at my fingertips, I guess I needed to. i got waitlisted. when we called to discuss with the Dean of Admissions we were told that they had to wait until closer to the start of the term and that had I been a minority it would not have been an issue... Oh well, I guess I'm not as privledged as I thought.
We do like a good cite here, it's true. Otherwise it's too easy to use "what we've heard" as fact. Since we're all trying to learn something here, it's better to have a source to back you up. Also if we can see the source, we can know the slant (that goes both ways) and can make informed decisions on how much weight to accord it.
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How often is on paper qualfications looked at without considering what other skills/qualities the potential hire would bring and how well that would round out the department as a whole? In my field that is common (and smart) practice.
I guess I would need to know what you mean by rounding out the department as a whole Hiring a minority just because it will make a department/organization look good should not be the primary motive of a hiring manager.
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The only person who cited a source in this whole thread was Phillycat..... just sayin'......
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No, I don't think the person with the most experience is always the best one to hire.
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What about the "more qualified" part?
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In that case, then hire the person you think is the best person and the best fit for the job.

and if they value a diverse company, then wouldn't that be the minority candidate?


I'll try to remember to do my research before posting over here. I better break out the encyclopedias :) Silly me for being a conservative.

I better study up on my gallop polls and independent studies before I post what everyone knows goes on.

I know of one college I got turned away from that had I been black I would have gotten in.... I really didn't want to share that.... but barring a gallop poll result.... not easily at my fingertips, I guess I needed to. i got waitlisted. when we called to discuss with the Dean of Admissions we were told that they had to wait until closer to the start of the term and that had I been a minority it would not have been an issue... Oh well, I guess I'm not as privledged as I thought.

Relate personal experiences as such, then. But if you're going to generalize to say that it happens "often" then you'll need more than a couple of TV news stories to convince me, especially with the number of people being hired every month in this country.
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no based on family rules and tradtions.
There are more than just blacks as minorities and others seem to do quite well here. Maybe it is more than just race is what I am saying.
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I'm not talking about making the department "look good", I'm talking about actually improving the department. A black or hispanic person with different cultural experiences is going to bring something to the department that I, as a white, middle class Midwesterner won't. Since I work in a field that is 99% white (at least around here, and probably close to that nationwide), yet we serve a much more more diverse popultation, I think that is important. I can speak to the need for diverse in health care and human service because that is what I know, but I think that idea applies to many other fields as well.
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I'm curious if any of us participating in this discussion have any actual experience in hiring and dealing with affirmative action and quotas. I don't, other than being on a couple of interview committees. I wish megawill would weigh in here; his graduate course last semester was on hiring. Stop working dear and come out and play! :)
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Not sure if this experience is relevant to the discussion, but, I was once not hired for a postion that I was qualified for. The reason given was the other candidate had a wife and young children. I was single at the time. I was this told directly by the hiring manager that was the deciding factor in my not getting a position
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I would think that is relevant. Were you more, or equally qualified?
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I do not, but my mother does in her job.... She talks about it periodically. The paperwork is a nightmare.
She talks more about the people that stay in the job for 3 to 4 days and then 3 weeks later the section 8 housing papers show up, than the affirmative action, though....
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Just a quick point of clarification. Though it varies by state, most public universities do not have a quota for minority students. This actually was why the Gratz case was lost by U of M because they used a quota system by giving minorities x number of points off the bat just because of their minority status.

Just wanted to clear that up because I don't want to be misunderstood.
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I agree!!!! The employer that is hiring really "only" has to hire someone qualified for the job. period. They don't have to and shouldn't hire the person most overqualified. I'm not saying that there isn't reverse discrimination, there is. When a company in white suburban American has to hire a minor that is underqualified, affirmative action falls apart and this certainly is being done all the time.
I have no idea if it's to meet a quota or fear of lawsuit. If two people are of the same capability, I have no problem with a minority getting the job, but my experience is that they hire unqualified minorities to fulfill quotas and I think this is what gets everyone's goat and why people are against AA. And in my own work experience companies are fearful to fire minorities even when there is gross misconduct.
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In that case, then hire the person you think is the best person and the best fit for the job.
I'll try to remember to do my research before posting over here. I better break out the encyclopedias :) Silly me for being a conservative.
I better study up on my gallop polls and independent studies before I post what everyone knows goes on.
I know of one college I got turned away from that had I been black I would have gotten in.... I really didn't want to share that.... but barring a gallop poll result.... not easily at my fingertips, I guess I needed to. i got waitlisted. when we called to discuss with the Dean of Admissions we were told that they had to wait until closer to the start of the term and that had I been a minority it would not have been an issue... Oh well, I guess I'm not as privledged as I thought.
Just an FYI, the gallup poll is a poll of public opinion. This is not usually considered a factual source. If you were to find certain census data or quantitative research done on the topic, that would probably be more easy to defend.
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