Avoid Suboxone Withdrawal; Only Two are Needed!

I would like to say to this person on suboxone, that first of all if you took 4 8/2 sub you would have got like you were on speed. When you got off you jumped at still 16mgs that was way to much. I called the manufacturer plus my pain dr. Whomis up on this stuff, and they say someone who has used opiates for years of high dosages needs a min of six months on suboxone stating at 3 8/2 mg of sub a day and as cravings subsided is when you start tapering every week until you are down to no cravings. The sub stays in your system long just like if you did Ativan or Xanax you would switch to klonopin or Valium to ween down, because it is a longer acting benzo. The main thing is not to use other stuff don't drink and work on a blood balance system with the subs just like benzos. Some pain users have been on so long they may never come off suboxone to maintain being off opiates at a low dose and there is nothing wrong with that. Shoot you could be on a high or low dose of blood pressure med depending on how long you started on one or another. My Dr. Would say if you are feeling the cravings today take a little more till you don't feel them, then the next day go right back what your taking at that point then continue to ween. You may get to say 2mg one or twice a day and can't live without that dose for a long time or never no big deal. it's better than using what you were using like 100 plus everything you will put into your body. What's better ask your self that question then make your choice and don't look back. Good luck

people who take them for life is honestly no different than my being on lithium for life. if i were to suddenly stop tomorrow-hello psychosis. some people do need these meds to stay away from opiates and *gasp* live a normal f*****g life. but then again, there are those who abuse, and there are those who use subs to taper down who honestly don't need them because they've been using percs/vics for a few months.

Read your post -- very interesting. And in theory, I support what you say about the Subs. In a perfect world, I wouldn't be taking them at all and there are times when I feel like I'm not living up to my "true potential" as a clean and sober person. However, I've had to weigh my desire for perfection with the facts about my addition history, and those facts are that I've relapsed over and over and over again, and at age 60, I really can't afford another relapse. I've seen myself go through "recovery" after recovery without being able to really make it stick so I'm in survival mode at this stage. I've concluded that in order to insure my own survival, I have to stay on these little orange pills until hell freezes over if that's what it takes. Maybe when I have a couple of years in recovery I'll consider weening myself a bit but for now, I feel that it would be real mistake to argue with success. I'm doing better now in sobriety than I EVER have before -- I'm happy, healthy, eager to enjoy life, and looking forward to each day. Would I be able to do that as a 100 percent clean person with no "crutches" whatsoever? I don't really know and at the moment, it's not worth conducting an experiment with what little life I have left. For the rest of you, God speed and good luck. If you can stop taking the Subs, you definitely have my "'way to go!" and "yay!" all the way. But if you have any doubts, proceed with caution and be sure that you're working closely with your doctor on any changes in your dose. The big mistake so many former addicts make is the decision to taper on their own -- that's the same behavior that got us into trouble in the first place; the need to control the types of medications we take and the dosages of those meds. For us, if one is good then five is better; same thing with quitting: "If I can get by with 8 mg then let's just drop down to 2 mg and 'see what happens'". So again, I strongly recommend that you work closely with your doc and spare yourself the possibility of going through severe discomfort or even worse, a possible return to cravings and relapse. As for the Thomas' Recipe: hey, it really sounds great but how many of us recovering addicts have access to a bunch of benzodiazapines? Also, is it really good practice to do this kind of thing without the presence and the input of your regular physician? Benzos caused me no end of misery during my active addiction and it's very, very easy for a long-term addict to pop these things like candy. So I'd proceed with tremendous caution on this recommendation. And best wishes and good luck to all ...

Hello All,

I have been reading multiple posts saying that Suboxone is the devil and to a certain extent, this argument is true....but on the other hand, it can also be a savior for some by using it the correct and life-changing way. It gives the person the ability who was taking 20 PK's a day and living life literally on the edge daily a chance to regain there sanity and try to regain some of the things they have lost by living a CONSISTENT life. Some people say that a short Sub detox is the right therapy and some say longer?? It really all depends on the person and there daily habits.  For severe addicts, a longer term would be necessary bc they obviously can not stay off there drug of choice and need that crutch to maintain some sort of social normality. Suboxone gives them the hope to try and live a sain, reasonable, healthy and to some extent, a happy life. I have been on Sub for a bout a year and half now taking anywhere from 2-4 mgs daily and I must say, I have regained all of the things I have lost in my past by leading a CONSISTENT type of life. I could never have accomplish that feet by staying on opiates bc that type of  life was either I was as high as a kite or as low as a bum. 

As all of you, I am scared that when I stop I will also get those horrible withdrawl symptoms and revert back to opiates but in retrospect suboxone has given me my life back in a way. I know it's a crutch but some of us may need that crutch the rest of lives bc the disease we have will not allow us to get clean. It's all mental and the mind is an unbelievably strong organ and is no force to be reckoned with. You can accomplish anything you set your mind to and I truly believe that. Now in the past I have come off of suboxone multiple times with different experiences on each stoppage but I found when I weened myself down to nearly crumbs, the withdrawl symptoms were minimal compared to when I jumped at 4-8mgs. The reason I went back on sub was because I was using opiates recreationally and didn't want to have that type of life not knowing where I am going to end up or what I am going to do to get my next fix.  I plan on slowly and I MEAN SLOWLY weening myself down to crumbs and make the jump again but I will do it when my body/mind is ready to make that jump. For some it could be 2 weeks or could be 5 years. We are all different human beings and need different types of therapy. In conclusion, I honestly think suboxone has given me a life again and has helped me maintain some sort of consistency that I used to have in life. Will this work for everybody?? The answer will probably be no but you need to find that discipline with-in yourself to want to make those changes and to want better things for your life. Suboxone may be hard to get off of eventually but its usage is meant for long-term therapy to help manage the stress of everyday life. It's what we/I couldn't accomplish as addicts that we now can accomplish through treatment. Just my 2 cents..Some will agree..some won't..Use it the right way and you may just get desirable results. Good luck to you all. I do feel your pain..God bless.

 

~Time for a long term change~

jen you are totally right ive used suboxone to get through heroin withdrawals by just taking only 3 of the 8mg subs and my withdrawal off thoses 8mgs was nothing i was only in minor sickness for like 4 days and boom back at normal, the reason why people go through bad sub w/ds is cuz they take it for too long and thats just another thing they got to withdrawal from since subs are stronger than most opiates you will find yourself in longer withdrawal days than most opiates just not as bad, but great post jen i know what you mean because ive actually tried it im suprised alot of people dont know about this,

i also know this method and it works people tend to withdrawal a long time from subs because they take subs for too long when only enough is needed to get through the amount of days coming off the other opiate which would typically be 6- 10 days in which you would just need 3 subs for a duration of nine days since each sub last 3 days and then you stop from there and after like four days of weak withdrawals BooM!! your back at normal!! trust me ya'll its the way to go! great post jen

I have been there...................

percocet (oxycodone) absolutely can be found 5 & 10mg pills w/ acetominophen. You're the one who's full of sh*t and pushing Sub. I was on 30mg a day of hydros for eight years and rarely ever took more, but then when I wanted to stop, I knew I was totally dependent. Thus, my doc recommended/prescribed 16mg of Sub per day, instead of helping me get through a week of withdrawal to get off the hydros. The first day I took the Sub, I thought I was gonna die from the shallow breathing it caused. I ended up taking approx. 4mg of Sub per day for 4 years and I was WAY more addicted to the SUBOXONE than I ever was to the hydros. Also, know that you can never take anything to alleviate pain when you're on Sub, other than over the counter aspirin/advil/tylenol because no opiate works anymore while on Sub and for several days after you discontinue taking Sub. Anyway, I could've gone through a week of withdrawal from hydros, but now I'm 2 months clean from the SUB and still suffering through horrible Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. So shut the f*ck up in saying Sub is THE WAY OUT because it's NOT! It's evil sh*t when used long-term and is all about the $$$ for Sub-Docs and pharma companies. Why do you think 99% of Sub docs only accept cash and refuse to accept any health insurance?!? Take it from a person who's been on both - don't take sub for more than a week (at most) when transitioning off of short-acting opiates - and you should NEVER take more than a gram or two of Sub per day, EVER!!! Anymore is unnecessary. Suboxone is WAAAAY stronger than any short-acting opiate - that's a FACT.

I understand that this is an old post but low point31 are you out there? That post struck a nerve with me. Because addiction is such a lonely road. The only true relationship is the one that you have with your Poison and then you have an epiphany and you want to quit and there is euphoria in that but others aren't going to usually get to excited about your deciding to be normal (sober) because chances are we've breeched that trust and our significants don't believe us untill it's a reality. So, hang in there don't rely on people who have conditions for love and do it because you want to wake up on a Saturday or Sunday morning and feel good or bad but feel something. God bless and I hope you've seen yourself in the mirror and sincerely smiled back at the old (new) you.

abacus wrote:

Guest wrote:

Yall two are obviously the types who don't understand addiction... people in the situation where they are taking 10 times the amount you do each day just to feel normal feel trapped and suboxone is a way out... there is no abuse potential to speak of, and you don't get high on it if you are dependant upon opiates. This gives the person a chance to learn to live in a normal mind and when it comes time to wean off... the cravings are much less apparent because you weren't getting high the whole time you were using the drug. The reason i am sure neither of you have any clue about opiates or addiction is because any real junkie first of all wouldn't ramble on about the senseless sh*t written on this post, and second EVERY pill popper knows percocet doesn't come in anything but 5 and 10 mg.... the 30's are roxicet/roxicodone. its the imm release. this is pill 101 sh*t, so if you would please not talk about this like you know until youve been to hell and back. I promise you anyone who has been truely addicted has been to the bottom of the barrel cause thats where this sh*t takes you every time you are not different.

percocet (oxycodone) absolutely can be found 5 & 10mg pills w/ acetominophen. You're the one who's full of sh*t and pushing Sub. I was on 30mg a day of hydros for eight years and rarely ever took more, but then when I wanted to stop, I knew I was totally dependent. Thus, my doc recommended/prescribed 16mg of Sub per day, instead of helping me get through a week of withdrawal to get off the hydros. The first day I took the Sub, I thought I was gonna die from the shallow breathing it caused. I ended up taking approx. 4mg of Sub per day for 4 years and I was WAY more addicted to the SUBOXONE than I ever was to the hydros. Also, know that you can never take anything to alleviate pain when you're on Sub, other than over the counter aspirin/advil/tylenol because no opiate works anymore while on Sub and for several days after you discontinue taking Sub. Anyway, I could've gone through a week of withdrawal from hydros, but now I'm 2 months clean from the SUB and still suffering through horrible Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. So shut the f*ck up in saying Sub is THE WAY OUT because it's NOT! It's evil sh*t when used long-term and is all about the $$$ for Sub-Docs and pharma companies. Why do you think 99% of Sub docs only accept cash and refuse to accept any health insurance?!? Take it from a person who's been on both - don't take sub for more than a week (at most) when transitioning off of short-acting opiates - and you should NEVER take more than a gram or two of Sub per day, EVER!!! Anymore is unnecessary. Suboxone is WAAAAY stronger than any short-acting opiate - that's a FACT.

The one common topic of many of these posts is "addicts who think that they should be in charge of their own withdrawal programs." Many of us, myself included, got in trouble with opioids because we decided that we needed them, for real and/or imagined/faked pain, and we were unwilling to try other medications even when offered. In my own case, I experienced several tailbone injuries which eventually evolved into a painful condition called pudendal nerve neuralgia. I talked my doctor into prescribing Dilaudids for the pain even though the condition could have been treated by a less powerful narcotic like Vicodin -- or it may even have been successfully treated by prednisone, for all I know. After about a year, the condition resolved and I didn't need ANYTHING -- but I never told my doctor that and so my Dilaudid use increased and increased until I had to buy my pills off the streets in order to avoid going into withdrawal. It was a horrible way to live and I even considered suicide because I just couldn't see a way out of my misery ... Eventually I went to my HMO and enrolled in their chemical dependency recovery program. I started taking Subs as part of the therapy (8 mg / 2x per day), I attend AA/NA meetings, I have a sponsor and am working the steps, etc. I think it's very misleading to insist that Suboxone is either bad or good -- it is what you make of it. It's working wonders for me and as far as I'm concerned, I'll stay on it for the rest of my life if I have to. But I'm not suggesting that anyone follow my program; this is just what works for me. I've been through many recoveries over my 60+ years, many horrible withdrawals, many hospitalizations for addiction side-effects, etc. I'm staying with the Suboxone because for me, it really works. I don't crave my drugs of choice any longer, I don't get "high" on Sub (maybe a little drowsy at times), and I just don't do the horribly negative things I used to do when I was abusing Dilaudids and other powerful narcotics ... So, to sum things up: (1) PLEASE don't claim that Sub is a terrible drug or that Sub is a wonder drug. It is neither. It just depends on how it is used and how the user reacts to it. But whatever you do with it, starting up on it or quitting it on your own is NOT to be recommended. Use your doctor for help with your addiction; that is what he/she is there for, (2) PLEASE do not write your own program for withdrawal if you're on Subs. The vast majority of us posting in this forum are not doctors but a lot of us sure as hell have PLAYED doctor quite a lot over the years! If ever there was a time to rely on your physician for support, this is it. Get help with your HMO's chemical dependency program or other drug/alcohol treatment program and stick with it. I really do think that that is your best hope for having a successful recovery program.

I was on suboxone for 2 years after 3+ years of battling with oxys. I generally took 4mg 2x a day, but sometimes as much as 8mg 3x. Anyone who says you can't get high from it is wrong. If you take it twice a day, no you prob won't ever feel anything, but if you  can go 24+ hours between doses you can definitely get a buzz, especially if you shoot it (which i certainly don't recommend, as it has ruined my veins).  Anyways, after 2 years I quit.  I followed one of the common recipes on the web for the first few days and had someone to babysit me, and make me eat, etc and the withdrawals never got too severe. They do last longer though...even after 2 weeks, I still had the squirts and insomnia with nightmares when I did sleep.

One reason why you did not have withdrawals
You werent taking that high of mg a day, only did them for 4 months no to mention im sure u werent doing 60 mg everyday. im sure u were doing them every other day. Even if u were doing them everyday four months its not along time. Now If you were doing 90 to 120 mg of the same pain killer for 4 months u would have a come down> You try to make it seem like its that easy to stop. Blahblahblah. I just stoped and felt fine.

You are absolutely correct about what you say about the different people who seem to post in forums like this. Playing doctor, electing oneself as project manager of their own recovery program to recover from street drugs, prescription drugs and/or the recovery program designed to recover from street drugs and or prescription drugs, I.E. subs (ozone/utex), or as you suggest program 2 best avoid withdrawals, is something that not only has made me a legend in my own mind but seems to be very common. The 1 thing that you did say, JanlAm, upon which I would like to expand, speaks of people like myself, you and others deciding that we needed the opiates; I would like to add that, in my case anyway, that way of tricking myself into believing that which is not true (easier to justify if I can buy my own BS, and strickly out fear) is exactly what not only kept me from hitting bottom sooner, but ironically drove me to it as well. Lying to myself so much, which made it impossible to be truthful to anyone else, just made me so sick of myself that it facilitated me seeing that bottom. In other words, 100 percent total and complete, and only total and complete, rigorous honesty is the only thing they gave my recovery a chance. Period. also, although I agree with you as far as not coming up with one's own plan, I myself believe that the only solution is not simply ones doctor, etc.; in fact, I believe that 1 of the reasons opinions vary as far as suboxone being good orevil is that some doctors seem to be motivated by something other than the health and well-being of their patients ($/kickbacks, possibly? Doctors are like special interest groups to Big Pharma... o_O ). 

In conclusion, it is my firm belief that things will work out if 1 is 100 percent honest with themselves, no matter what situation (pro-sub, anti-sub, on subs with no hope, politicians, etc.) they may find themselves in.
2 more things: 1. here is a helpful link:

 ***this post is edited by moderator *** *** web addresses not allowed*** Please read our Terms of Use

. things I find helpful are exercise, eating and drinking healthfully and a lot of exposure to the Sun (with or without Vitamin D supplements, but if being out in the sun cannot happen frequently I recommend vitamin D supplements)-the key is to start these good habits and establishing a consistent regimin before starting to wean off, or before 1 is very well into their particular program of weaning off of whatever. trust me when I say that you will likely find yourself wanting the good feeling produced by the rush of dopamine, endorphins, beta-endorphin, serotonin, etc. naturally rresulting from aforementioned pro-self health endeavors. in to identify, I am an addict, alcoholic, liar, cheat, thief, fill in the blank. Oh, and a pedantic know it all...XD. God bless all of you, especially the helpful ones, and especially especially those who are currently struggling.

Sorry about that, Mr. moderator o_O XD I am now clear on the terms. great website you have here!

I feel you people thinking suboxone withdraws are bad have never been to the point I was at. I was banging a gram of H a day. This was after the Oxycontin, and morphine stopped making me feel normal again. If it would not have been for suboxone I would either be dead or in jail because that is the two things that will happen if you continue using opiates.