Hello everyone!
I'm probably about to open a can of worms here,but that's my point-I like to know everyone's opinions & thoughts on certain things when it comes to opiate w/d. So I'm going to share my experiences,& see if any of you can relate to what I'm saying, and agree or disagree with my opinions.
Alot of doctors have been jumping on the bupernorphine bandwagon,thinking it's THE answer to treating opiate addiction. I have tried bupernorphine in every form/brand there is,& these are my findings. Let me first start by saying that my opiate of choice was heroin,IV usage,for over 13yrs,a bundle + a day habit. When I was 19,& hadn't been using that long,I had bupernex shots in a facility,& it worked well to keep away w/d. In recent years though,any kind of bupernorphine has ZERO effect on me.And for the record,yes I'd waited over 24hrs. to take it,scored at least a 26 on the COWS test,& used it as directed under a doctor's supervision (whenever anyone dares say that any kind of bupernorphine didn't help their w/d at all,everyone just says 'well you just didn't do it right' or 'you didn't have the correct dose')
Something I've noticed in these forums too is that many who seem to find relief from w/d with any kind of bupernorphine seem to a.have not been using for more than a few years or so., b. seem to talk about using pills as their opiate of choice, or c.both. So my conclusion is this: that everyone's different,& that bupernorphine is really more for people that haven't been using for more than a few years or that heavily. Another thing that supports this theory of mine is that many who seem to say they find bupernorphine helpful also say that they actually find Clonodine to be helpful. Clonodine has absolutely no effect on me whatsoever,& whenever a doctor says the word Clonodine,I roll my eyes to myself & think 'here we go again'. If they intend to use Clonodine as the main drug for easing w/d,I hightail it out of there.Yes,some do have increased blood pressure during w/d,but many medications,if not used in conjunction w/an alternative opiate,have no effect.Exapmle: If I were to take 1 Xanax,it'd normally knock me on my ass.If I'm sick,I can take 5 Xanax,& nothing happens.And I'm not talking about ever doing Xanax while actually high on an opiate,I mean when you're not high,but you're also not sick.Or Compozine. Compozine I always refer to as a miracle drug when it comes to nausea/vomiting.But Compzine by itself does nothing if used alone & I'm sick.Many may argue that of course something will help if used in conjunction w/an opiate,because it's the opiate that's taking away the symptoms.But I'm talking about a bundle a day heroin user just using a small amount of an alternative opiate,which isn't going to make you high,& often doesn't even take away the w/d.But it's just enough to seem to make the other medications effective.
One more thing I disagree with is what medical records say about Suboxone.They say that the Naloxone in Suboxone,when taken orally,has virtually no effect,& is purely so it won't be abused for people.I disagree.First of all,some have adverse reactions to Naloxone.And it's not as rare as doctors think.Another thing is that they say that it's the bupernorphine,not the Naloxone,that acts as a blocker.While bupernorphine does bind more tightly to the receptors than full opiate agonists,when I took Suboxone,& it did nothing for me,I tried to do heroin & it didn't help.Yet when I took Subutex or Bupernex,or bupernorphine shots,(and again,it didn't help),I did my dope to get well,& I got well.Same happened to a friend of mine,he did Suboxone,it didn't help,& he was stuck like that for a few days.
Sorry to be long winded,but just wanted to give more detail to try to better explain some of the statements & thoughts I've been saying. So I just wanted to share my experiences,& see what kind of experiences you all have had. Similar,dissimilar,whichever.
Hey AK - I definitely agree w you. I'm currently struggling to move on to suboxone and / or subutex, but so far I've experienced similar things that you have.
First I'll say that I'm same 1 bag + although method of use is insufflation / bumping etc, so probably in your ballpark of amt of drug in my system but a little less.
I waited 24 hrs, and this happened last time too - taking (this time) subutex (& in the past and / or suboxone) definitely gave me 'precipitated withdrawals', or worsened how I was feeling from bad to barely able to get up, not able to eat, etc. for 2 days.
Last bump of H was Thurs. night 8PM-ish 11/22 (Thanksgiving), Fri. AM feeling pretty bad but way better than expected, Fri PM feeling worse, took subutex around 7PM (I think just one x 8 mg pill) and then FULL ON WD's.
I felt terrible, especially being that I was at home and had to go with the "hey everyone I'm just really, really sick" story.
Got back to my apt Sat. about 4PM, met up w my supplier around 5, then first bump at 6, felt immediately a lot "better" although was still only feeling 50-70% as good as I am today through last night (Sunday).
So similar issues:
(1) Similar usage but a little less
(2) Subs (either type) seemed to make things worse at first,
(3) Subs made it harder to get back to normal after return to H
Last night as I started to approach feeling back to "normal", even though really I was getting back to "normal heroin user", I got VERY bad itchy / pins & needles feelings that you get when you're not used to the dosages you're taking / a novice user. Probably all of the receptors being left alone from the Subs which were hogging them.
Anyway, what I am really hoping to get to is to cross that bridge completely instead of torturing myself and then end up coming back to using.
I'm wondering: Is there any "taper off of H / taper on to Subs" method that has worked out there? I'm thinking this would entail starting with VERY little subs, since their affinity for binding etc. is so much higher than H or oxy's & all that stuff. I'm also thinking that this would of course include supplements and other things like Immodium that are included in other detox routines.
I'll be subscribed to this thread, my first on this site actually :) Looking forward to the help I'll receive and hopefully have to offer in the future...