I feel your pain - literally.
I'm 17 years old, and at 13 I took a jump on a fourwheeler causing my hymen to tear, at 16 I finally decided to get it removed, while I knew I was going to get it done soon, I decided to get my right labia taken down a little, since it was uncomfortable to wear underwear, or even jeans! I was pleased with the precedure, except a small skin tag.
Atleast I thought I was pleased, I began having frequant yeast infections, tripple the amount of UTI'S (Which is why I got this done in the first place) and now I can't have sex without crying (I've been with the same man for 1 1/2 years, and I lost my virginity to him) I know he wants intercourse, and I do too, it's an intimate experiance that is involved with a healthy relationship. But afterwards, and during, it burns my uretha, and my vagina. It's now been almost a full year.
Listenup wrote:
My doctor did tell me what he intended to do and that was written in my consent form "excision of redundant labia." though he was not clear about how much he would leave, I assumed he would know best. I felt uncomfortable asking questions because my doctor was an older man and I was barely 18, and really naive. It is clear my doctor did not intend to remove all of my labia. In his letter to me he says "I was surprised at how atrophied your labia were following your surgery, but when I asked you if you were satisfied, you said yes, so I assumed it wasn't a problem." at that time I did not understand female sexual function so I didn't realize reduced sensation was a problem or his business. I really don't know how I could have been so clueless. Anyway, note that he was surprised and that he fails to take responsibility for what he did. In one of dr. Alters papers he comments on how this unintended result occurs. My labia obviously did not atrophy. They were removed in surgery and were completely gone by the time I examined my result the following day. Though I was surprised, I just though "oh well" and figured no labia was just as good as small labia. I also didn't really understand the difference between the labia and the clitoral hood. I somehow couldn't find my clitoris either. I was not stupid (I had just gotten a 1540 on my sats), I just wasn't educated about the anatomy, even though I had tried to be, I just didn't get it. My doctor also performed a clitoral hood reduction unintentionally. He denies doing this despite the fact that I have surgical scars extending almost to the midline above the glans. This has been verified by other doctors. Unfortunately, because the scars are so small, ob gyns do not notice them unless I point them out. They haven't even been able to tell I've had a reduction, even though the anatomy is distorted. This is pretty pathetic since Dr. Alter was able to tell from a picture. That's why I strongly urge people to examine themselves carefully and/or get examined by an expert. I guess that the point of this post is to say that the problem isn't only that doctors don't adequately explain the expected result. It can also be that doctors fail to achieve anything remotely close to the intended result because they have no idea what they are doing. And also, that doctors may not even be able to identify their error or even be able to identify the surgical site. This is obviously so ridiculous it is hard to believe. But I have in writing a letter from my doctor where he claims he does not know what I am talking about because he thinks he stayed far away from my clitoral frenulum. In actuality, he reduced my clitoral hood, and removed labia past the bifurcation point, thus removing tissue from my frenulum. I would suspect such idiocy is not uncommon given my other experiences with ob gyns since my surgery and also my doctors stellar reputation. He was former president of the texas medical association, is on the board at aetna, and is considered one if the best ob gyn surgeons at Baylor. Tell me that isn't scary. I think that if a doctor with such a good reputation can make this kind of error, and not even be aware of it, this is probably a relatively common problem. Also when I suggested the mechanical role of the labia minora, as described by masters and Johnson was disrupted, one very smart urogynecilogist said "I don't think most ob gyns have ever thought of the mechanical role of the labia minora." this is sad. Btw, I also think disrupting clitoral hood mechanics affects perceived clitoral sensitivity, and that this should be relatively obvious. Anyway, this urogyn. suggested I go see a transsex surgeon, based on the fact that a previous transex patients ob gyn was unable to tell she was transex. But I've seen the post op pictures from the surgeons site and they look nothing like real women. I don't think any transsex post ops really look like real women. Frankly I think it's pretty ridiculous that ab ob gyn wouldn't be able to tell the difference and just shows what a vague understanding many of then have. My apologies to any ob gyns who are offended by this statement, as I am only making a judgement based on experience with 4 doctors and my review of the green journal. I just think it is scary. I have yet to find any doctors who understand female sexual anatomy and function as well as I think they should. Though I do not doubt there are many doctors who can perform labisplasty safely, I think this is almost by accident, as no one discusses anatomical and functional concerns in sufficient detail or in reference to studies of anatomy, neurophysiology, and female sexual response. I think that is scary. It also may be difficult to tell who is qualified and who is not. Even when surgeons have undergone training, this seems relatively worthless if they were trained by someone frequently sued and reported to the state board of California, who has not published anything remotely legitimate, and who, judging from his postop pics, really must be butchering people on a regular basis. As one surgeon has remarked "the field of cosmetic genital surgery is like the wild, wild west: wide open and unregulated." frankly I strongly urge against this surgery unless your labia are actually over 5 cm long (considered the upper limit of normal according to the study in bjog). Before you undergo this surgery please consider how important your sexual health is to quality of life. Do not trust reports of increased sexual function as this is not likely of physical cause. This is supported by a study of 6 post op women in the bjog, for whom further questioning revealed this perception is most likely psychological, and highly dependent on expectations before surgery, cognitive dissonance, etc. There is really no physiological basis for this except in the potential cases where it leads to improved mechanics regarding how friction is transmitted to the clitoris. Still, I really think these surgeries can be dangerous. Even when the risk is low, the degree of potential harm and effect to quality of life is high. This is true even with the best surgeons. Seriously. I'm not even against cosmetic surgery. Go get your tits, nose, and whatever else done, but leave your vulva be. Until standards are established, and these surgeries are properly regulated, and justified on the basis of scientific fact, they just aren't safe and the downside, I think, is too great. Also, I believe there are many women, like me, who may be getting surgery because they don't have a good idea of the range of normal. There is one study in the bjog of 33 women seeking labial surgery under the nhs. 15 have labia below the reported mean for all women. It is no surprise 66% of the women in the study had never been sexually active before, and the average age was 23. Though I do not doubt that some women benefit from these surgeries, I think most women are pursuing these surgeries because they are uninformed regarding normality and function, and do not understand the risks they are taking. Also, please question the validity of advertised ideals as labiaplasty surgeons are essentially the primary arbiters of vulvar aesthetics. Though I get that soft core porn magazines like playboy feature minimal labia, maybe ask yourself is there could be any reason why this is. After all, fashion magazines feature models with bmi's of like 15-16, but studies of beauty show that ratings of physical attractiveness decrease exponentially below a bmi of 17. And most guys would think someone who was like 5'10 and 105 lbs looked gross. But I know when I was 12 I bought into it, lost 10 lbs even though I was already skinny, because it was just really easy for me, and didn't understand what the proven was because I wasnt any skinnier than, say, Kate moss when she was younger, and I thought that's what everyone wanted. The reason I was so susceptible to these messages is because I was reading fashion magazines constantly, was really young, and wasn't presented with opposing evidence because I was sort of a nerd and didn't watch tv or anything. So the problem really is information bias. Is playboy representative of the ideal? Or could this be part of a marketing strategy to reach a more mainstream audience by limiting explicitness? It seems like there are much bigger labia in hard core porn, especially if it european, so what's that about? How real is this so called ideal? And what is it based on. I think it's based on a misunderstanding of female anatomy, and a general failure to even acknowledge vulvar anatomy. I know when I was little I was taught I had a vagina and everything was relatively unobtrusive until I hit puberty at which point I was like WTF mate? And the only vulvas I'd ever seen we're pubescent vulvas. So I think on some level maybe people visually prefer what they are used to looking at. I think lack of acknowledgement of vulvar anatomy is a symptom of a societal lack of acknowledgement of female sexual response. Female orgasm is treated so vaguely and abstractly it's really silly. There is a very observable pattern of response, very similar to in males, except without ejaculation a lot of times. That's it whats so hard. And it's a he'll of a lot more observable if you have sone labia to swell up during the arousal phase. Whatever, back to the ideal part. Before my surgery I tried really hard to figure out what was normal and if it was bad to have large labia so I entered search terms like "large labia" and back then there was much less good info then there is today so I came to the conclusion I had a very abnormal, embarrassing problem even though I didn't at all. But it's interesting I think how different the results are if you enter large or small p***y lips (of they censor this it's supposed to be in slang and be synonymous with cat) instead of large labia or small labia. Another thing that's interesting to observe, though not scientific, and possibly offensive to some so I apologize for that, is comments on porn sites about pussies. There are more obviously for solo videos. Also, have you ever noticed who complains about ugly labia? It seems like it's always women. And it seems like guys who like going down on girls like lips. Right after I had my surgery I thought I looked good because I just didn't know any better and I'd gotten some idea that lips were ugly. But now I think they are erotic. I think it's really sad looking to have no lips. I wish I had my old lips back, full and potty just like the ones in my face. I don't understand why women buy into the idea that it is ugly. It's interesting because usually standards of beauty are consistent with evolution/biology like waist-to-hip ratio for example. It seems like everytime a standard of beauty is contrary to what should be a biological imperative, it is fabricated. This one doesn't make sense. Labia are bigger when aroused. Labia are bigger in fertile women. Excess androgen during fetal development causes congenital hyperplasia, where there are minimal or no labia. Who had the smallest labia? Little girls and old women. Minimized vulvas in some medical texts due to drawing from postmemapausal cadavers. So wait a second everyone. How does this even make sense? Labia are explicit. Not featuring prominent labia in softcore mags could be for the same reason women might be more turned on looking at a guy wearing underwear rather than completely naked. Genitals are genitals. Girls have them too. Who came up with the idea they are supposed to be invisible? Idea that feminity is defined as genital absence is a sociocultiral notion not rooted in medical fact of sex differentiation. Especially in cases where the clitoris is small but the labia are large that is biologically, incontrovertibly feminine. For it to be masculine the labia would need to unite and join up with the clitoris ventrally to form a single phallus. Estrogen receptors in labia are involved in gene expression and labia growth. Honestly I bet if they did a study, natural labia under .5 cm would correlate with a higher level of dysfunction since low estrogen levels are correlated with both dysfunction abs atrophy. I dunno. I'm just postulating that in general there would be a correlation, though I'm sure many perfectly healthy women also have small labia. I'm getting off track. Still on my phone sorry for the typos. I've been too lazy to get Internet. I've been thinking about this surgery way too much. It's making me depressed so I'm going to take a break.
Thanks for your comments, they are very insightful and you are obviously very intelligent.
I have some questions. Have you had sex since the operation (you said you were a virgin at the time of surgery). If so, was it enjoyable or were you thinking too much of what happened to enjoy it? Also, did you share what had happened to your partner?
I think I mentioned a while back that it took me years to understand to what extent I had been mutilated. At the time, I trusted in the expertise of my surgeon. Though I identified decreased vulvar sensation, I did not realize the seriousness of this issue, as I did not understand female sexual function. I had never had sex, rarely if ever masturbated, and had never had an orgasm. I thought that if anything had gone wrong, it constituted an unpreventable adverse event, and would be my own fault for pursuing surgery in the first place. I rationalized by telling myself I had really needed the surgery, and that despite any complications, it had been worth it. I told myself my doctor knew what he was doing and that if any complication had occurred, it must be minor and unimportant. It took me a long time to fully understand my anatomy and realize how my surgery had effected me due to a number of factors: cognitive dissonance, denial, inexperience, etc. But in the mean time, of course I had sex. I would never think about my surgery during sex because that would obviously ruin the mood. Most guys do not pay much attention at all to what vulvas look like. It's really quite comical. As far as I know, no guy has ever been able to tell there was something wrong morphologically. I have no labia and thus there is no mechanical connection between my vagina and clitoris, and therefore limited means for stimulation during intercourse. My hood is also so distorted that the normal back and forth frictional motion that many women use to achieve orgasm is not possible. I also have almost no sensation on the right side of my clitoris due, I suspect, to some sort of injury to the right branch of the dorsal nerve. Thus, sex is not as pleasurable as it might otherwise be. However, I still have vestibular bulbs, "G spot" (skene's glans), and I do still have sensitivity on the left side of my clitoris and can get some stimulation with the right angle. My surgery has not and cannot affect my libido or my ability to get aroused unless I let it. Though some physical pathways of arousal have been deactivated, psychological pathways have not. This just means I have to put extra effort into understanding my sexuality and asking for what I want. I do not have pain during sex. However, certain methods of foreplay, fingering, cunnilingus, etc. can lead to irritation of the vestibule, as it is over exposed. Whereas these activities normally involve applied friction to the labia as means of stimulation, this is not possible. A guy used to a woman with normal anatomy will need to be informed about this difference. Nowadays, I would never have sex with any guy until he fully understands my situation and accepts me anyway. This has never been a problem. It is not a real issue. No guy worth your time will ever have a problem with it aesthetically. In my experience no guy has ever had a problem with it. They have only ever been sad for me and wanted to help me make the best of what I have. As an example, when I asked one guy why he liked my vulva/vagina (in slang), he said "because it makes you feel good." The only thing frustrating for them is if they do not think they can get you off. That's why I've just had to put extra effort into that. Unfortunately, I am 100% vibrator dependent. But it is certainly not my fault, and it is certainly not due to the inadequacy of any partner. As long as that is clear, there is no problem. The only thing annoying is when guys have assumed I'm telling them because I'm insecure and am looking for validation (no guy wants that responsibility), in which case I've had to make it clear that I am addressing what is essentially a physical disability that they need to understand in order for me to get the most out of a sexual relationship. Awkward, but necessary. Yes, I do think I look kind of scary, personally, but I'm not the one looking at it so that doesn't matter. I do struggle with feeling inadequate, but not with partners, just with myself. So I just have to focus on what makes me sexy, that's all. So people who say they can never have sex after this, or can never let a partner see them are completely irrational. Any woman who has suffered such mutilation has lost enough already without adding further tragedy to the equation. Seriously, to any woman who currently feels this way, don't punish yourself for the fact that someone else hurt you. I have struggled a great deal with this, mainly in trying to come to terms with it and find a way to stand up for myself. But my biggest problem is how medical professionals and my parents have responded. To me, this is the penultimate form of sexual assault, and I need it acknowledged as such, and I need to have my experience result in some preventative action. However, my sexual partners have only ever been supportive. Some of them have struggled to understand at first. The worst response I've gotten is "that's a stupid thing to be upset about. how is this not hot?" or "stop complaining and get it fixed." Usually they just can't stand to see me sad about something and want to fix it. But I always have to explain it because I believe in 100% honesty in relationships, and I generally like to put all of my issues on the table before getting seriously involved. And because I know not being open and up front about what happened to me would only reinforce a sense of shame. No one is going to have reservations due to iatrogenic vulvar distortion. However, if you act like a complete emotional basket-case about it, they might. No one would reject you for something like this happening to you, but they might reject you for how you deal with it. That, for me, has been a bit scary ever since I set out to stand up for myself and get some sort of justice, and especially since i got the devastating letter from my doctor, as it has become more psychologically traumatic. But I'm not a quitter, so I'm not going to let go until I change hospital policy or make some comparable difference to prevent this from happening to others. In the mean time, I am single, only because I don't want to pull anyone else into this. When this is over, and I have stood up for myself, I will begin dating again. Despite my disfigured anatomy, I have been told I have a perfect body, and "am every guys dream." It is clear that vulvar aesthetics do not factor significantly into perceived attractiveness, just FYI.
cBach wrote:
Listenup wrote:
My doctor did tell me what he intended to do and that was written in my consent form "excision of redundant labia." though he was not clear about how much he would leave, I assumed he would know best. I felt uncomfortable asking questions because my doctor was an older man and I was barely 18, and really naive. It is clear my doctor did not intend to remove all of my labia. In his letter to me he says "I was surprised at how atrophied your labia were following your surgery, but when I asked you if you were satisfied, you said yes, so I assumed it wasn't a problem." at that time I did not understand female sexual function so I didn't realize reduced sensation was a problem or his business. I really don't know how I could have been so clueless. Anyway, note that he was surprised and that he fails to take responsibility for what he did. In one of dr. Alters papers he comments on how this unintended result occurs. My labia obviously did not atrophy. They were removed in surgery and were completely gone by the time I examined my result the following day. Though I was surprised, I just though "oh well" and figured no labia was just as good as small labia. I also didn't really understand the difference between the labia and the clitoral hood. I somehow couldn't find my clitoris either. I was not stupid (I had just gotten a 1540 on my sats), I just wasn't educated about the anatomy, even though I had tried to be, I just didn't get it. My doctor also performed a clitoral hood reduction unintentionally. He denies doing this despite the fact that I have surgical scars extending almost to the midline above the glans. This has been verified by other doctors. Unfortunately, because the scars are so small, ob gyns do not notice them unless I point them out. They haven't even been able to tell I've had a reduction, even though the anatomy is distorted. This is pretty pathetic since Dr. Alter was able to tell from a picture. That's why I strongly urge people to examine themselves carefully and/or get examined by an expert. I guess that the point of this post is to say that the problem isn't only that doctors don't adequately explain the expected result. It can also be that doctors fail to achieve anything remotely close to the intended result because they have no idea what they are doing. And also, that doctors may not even be able to identify their error or even be able to identify the surgical site. This is obviously so ridiculous it is hard to believe. But I have in writing a letter from my doctor where he claims he does not know what I am talking about because he thinks he stayed far away from my clitoral frenulum. In actuality, he reduced my clitoral hood, and removed labia past the bifurcation point, thus removing tissue from my frenulum. I would suspect such idiocy is not uncommon given my other experiences with ob gyns since my surgery and also my doctors stellar reputation. He was former president of the texas medical association, is on the board at aetna, and is considered one if the best ob gyn surgeons at Baylor. Tell me that isn't scary. I think that if a doctor with such a good reputation can make this kind of error, and not even be aware of it, this is probably a relatively common problem. Also when I suggested the mechanical role of the labia minora, as described by masters and Johnson was disrupted, one very smart urogynecilogist said "I don't think most ob gyns have ever thought of the mechanical role of the labia minora." this is sad. Btw, I also think disrupting clitoral hood mechanics affects perceived clitoral sensitivity, and that this should be relatively obvious. Anyway, this urogyn. suggested I go see a transsex surgeon, based on the fact that a previous transex patients ob gyn was unable to tell she was transex. But I've seen the post op pictures from the surgeons site and they look nothing like real women. I don't think any transsex post ops really look like real women. Frankly I think it's pretty ridiculous that ab ob gyn wouldn't be able to tell the difference and just shows what a vague understanding many of then have. My apologies to any ob gyns who are offended by this statement, as I am only making a judgement based on experience with 4 doctors and my review of the green journal. I just think it is scary. I have yet to find any doctors who understand female sexual anatomy and function as well as I think they should. Though I do not doubt there are many doctors who can perform labisplasty safely, I think this is almost by accident, as no one discusses anatomical and functional concerns in sufficient detail or in reference to studies of anatomy, neurophysiology, and female sexual response. I think that is scary. It also may be difficult to tell who is qualified and who is not. Even when surgeons have undergone training, this seems relatively worthless if they were trained by someone frequently sued and reported to the state board of California, who has not published anything remotely legitimate, and who, judging from his postop pics, really must be butchering people on a regular basis. As one surgeon has remarked "the field of cosmetic genital surgery is like the wild, wild west: wide open and unregulated." frankly I strongly urge against this surgery unless your labia are actually over 5 cm long (considered the upper limit of normal according to the study in bjog). Before you undergo this surgery please consider how important your sexual health is to quality of life. Do not trust reports of increased sexual function as this is not likely of physical cause. This is supported by a study of 6 post op women in the bjog, for whom further questioning revealed this perception is most likely psychological, and highly dependent on expectations before surgery, cognitive dissonance, etc. There is really no physiological basis for this except in the potential cases where it leads to improved mechanics regarding how friction is transmitted to the clitoris. Still, I really think these surgeries can be dangerous. Even when the risk is low, the degree of potential harm and effect to quality of life is high. This is true even with the best surgeons. Seriously. I'm not even against cosmetic surgery. Go get your tits, nose, and whatever else done, but leave your vulva be. Until standards are established, and these surgeries are properly regulated, and justified on the basis of scientific fact, they just aren't safe and the downside, I think, is too great. Also, I believe there are many women, like me, who may be getting surgery because they don't have a good idea of the range of normal. There is one study in the bjog of 33 women seeking labial surgery under the nhs. 15 have labia below the reported mean for all women. It is no surprise 66% of the women in the study had never been sexually active before, and the average age was 23. Though I do not doubt that some women benefit from these surgeries, I think most women are pursuing these surgeries because they are uninformed regarding normality and function, and do not understand the risks they are taking. Also, please question the validity of advertised ideals as labiaplasty surgeons are essentially the primary arbiters of vulvar aesthetics. Though I get that soft core porn magazines like playboy feature minimal labia, maybe ask yourself is there could be any reason why this is. After all, fashion magazines feature models with bmi's of like 15-16, but studies of beauty show that ratings of physical attractiveness decrease exponentially below a bmi of 17. And most guys would think someone who was like 5'10 and 105 lbs looked gross. But I know when I was 12 I bought into it, lost 10 lbs even though I was already skinny, because it was just really easy for me, and didn't understand what the proven was because I wasnt any skinnier than, say, Kate moss when she was younger, and I thought that's what everyone wanted. The reason I was so susceptible to these messages is because I was reading fashion magazines constantly, was really young, and wasn't presented with opposing evidence because I was sort of a nerd and didn't watch tv or anything. So the problem really is information bias. Is playboy representative of the ideal? Or could this be part of a marketing strategy to reach a more mainstream audience by limiting explicitness? It seems like there are much bigger labia in hard core porn, especially if it european, so what's that about? How real is this so called ideal? And what is it based on. I think it's based on a misunderstanding of female anatomy, and a general failure to even acknowledge vulvar anatomy. I know when I was little I was taught I had a vagina and everything was relatively unobtrusive until I hit puberty at which point I was like WTF mate? And the only vulvas I'd ever seen we're pubescent vulvas. So I think on some level maybe people visually prefer what they are used to looking at. I think lack of acknowledgement of vulvar anatomy is a symptom of a societal lack of acknowledgement of female sexual response. Female orgasm is treated so vaguely and abstractly it's really silly. There is a very observable pattern of response, very similar to in males, except without ejaculation a lot of times. That's it whats so hard. And it's a he'll of a lot more observable if you have sone labia to swell up during the arousal phase. Whatever, back to the ideal part. Before my surgery I tried really hard to figure out what was normal and if it was bad to have large labia so I entered search terms like "large labia" and back then there was much less good info then there is today so I came to the conclusion I had a very abnormal, embarrassing problem even though I didn't at all. But it's interesting I think how different the results are if you enter large or small p***y lips (of they censor this it's supposed to be in slang and be synonymous with cat) instead of large labia or small labia. Another thing that's interesting to observe, though not scientific, and possibly offensive to some so I apologize for that, is comments on porn sites about pussies. There are more obviously for solo videos. Also, have you ever noticed who complains about ugly labia? It seems like it's always women. And it seems like guys who like going down on girls like lips. Right after I had my surgery I thought I looked good because I just didn't know any better and I'd gotten some idea that lips were ugly. But now I think they are erotic. I think it's really sad looking to have no lips. I wish I had my old lips back, full and potty just like the ones in my face. I don't understand why women buy into the idea that it is ugly. It's interesting because usually standards of beauty are consistent with evolution/biology like waist-to-hip ratio for example. It seems like everytime a standard of beauty is contrary to what should be a biological imperative, it is fabricated. This one doesn't make sense. Labia are bigger when aroused. Labia are bigger in fertile women. Excess androgen during fetal development causes congenital hyperplasia, where there are minimal or no labia. Who had the smallest labia? Little girls and old women. Minimized vulvas in some medical texts due to drawing from postmemapausal cadavers. So wait a second everyone. How does this even make sense? Labia are explicit. Not featuring prominent labia in softcore mags could be for the same reason women might be more turned on looking at a guy wearing underwear rather than completely naked. Genitals are genitals. Girls have them too. Who came up with the idea they are supposed to be invisible? Idea that feminity is defined as genital absence is a sociocultiral notion not rooted in medical fact of sex differentiation. Especially in cases where the clitoris is small but the labia are large that is biologically, incontrovertibly feminine. For it to be masculine the labia would need to unite and join up with the clitoris ventrally to form a single phallus. Estrogen receptors in labia are involved in gene expression and labia growth. Honestly I bet if they did a study, natural labia under .5 cm would correlate with a higher level of dysfunction since low estrogen levels are correlated with both dysfunction abs atrophy. I dunno. I'm just postulating that in general there would be a correlation, though I'm sure many perfectly healthy women also have small labia. I'm getting off track. Still on my phone sorry for the typos. I've been too lazy to get Internet. I've been thinking about this surgery way too much. It's making me depressed so I'm going to take a break.
Thanks for your comments, they are very insightful and you are obviously very intelligent.
I have some questions. Have you had sex since the operation (you said you were a virgin at the time of surgery). If so, was it enjoyable or were you thinking too much of what happened to enjoy it? Also, did you share what had happened to your partner?
I think I mentioned a while back that it took me years to understand to what extent I had been mutilated. At the time, I trusted in the expertise of my surgeon. Though I identified decreased vulvar sensation, I did not realize the seriousness of this issue, as I did not understand female sexual function. I had never had sex, rarely if ever masturbated, and had never had an orgasm. I thought that if anything had gone wrong, it constituted an unpreventable adverse event, and would be my own fault for pursuing surgery in the first place. I rationalized by telling myself I had really needed the surgery, and that despite any complications, it had been worth it. I told myself my doctor knew what he was doing and that if any complication had occurred, it must be minor and unimportant. It took me a long time to fully understand my anatomy and realize how my surgery had effected me due to a number of factors: cognitive dissonance, denial, inexperience, etc. But in the mean time, of course I had sex. I would never think about my surgery during sex because that would obviously ruin the mood. Most guys do not pay much attention at all to what vulvas look like. It's really quite comical. As far as I know, no guy has ever been able to tell there was something wrong morphologically. I have no labia and thus there is no mechanical connection between my vagina and clitoris, and therefore limited means for stimulation during intercourse. My hood is also so distorted that the normal back and forth frictional motion that many women use to achieve orgasm is not possible. I also have almost no sensation on the right side of my clitoris due, I suspect, to some sort of injury to the right branch of the dorsal nerve. Thus, sex is not as pleasurable as it might otherwise be. However, I still have vestibular bulbs, "G spot" (skene's glans), and I do still have sensitivity on the left side of my clitoris and can get some stimulation with the right angle. My surgery has not and cannot affect my libido or my ability to get aroused unless I let it. Though some physical pathways of arousal have been deactivated, psychological pathways have not. This just means I have to put extra effort into understanding my sexuality and asking for what I want. I do not have pain during sex. However, certain methods of foreplay, fingering, cunnilingus, etc. can lead to irritation of the vestibule, as it is over exposed. Whereas these activities normally involve applied friction to the labia as means of stimulation, this is not possible. A guy used to a woman with normal anatomy will need to be informed about this difference. Nowadays, I would never have sex with any guy until he fully understands my situation and accepts me anyway. This has never been a problem. It is not a real issue. No guy worth your time will ever have a problem with it aesthetically. In my experience no guy has ever had a problem with it. They have only ever been sad for me and wanted to help me make the best of what I have. As an example, when I asked one guy why he liked my vulva/vagina (in slang), he said "because it makes you feel good." The only thing frustrating for them is if they do not think they can get you off. That's why I've just had to put extra effort into that. Unfortunately, I am 100% vibrator dependent. But it is certainly not my fault, and it is certainly not due to the inadequacy of any partner. As long as that is clear, there is no problem. The only thing annoying is when guys have assumed I'm telling them because I'm insecure and am looking for validation (no guy wants that responsibility), in which case I've had to make it clear that I am addressing what is essentially a physical disability that they need to understand in order for me to get the most out of a sexual relationship. Awkward, but necessary. Yes, I do think I look kind of scary, personally, but I'm not the one looking at it so that doesn't matter. I do struggle with feeling inadequate, but not with partners, just with myself. So I just have to focus on what makes me sexy, that's all. So people who say they can never have sex after this, or can never let a partner see them are completely irrational. Any woman who has suffered such mutilation has lost enough already without adding further tragedy to the equation. Seriously, to any woman who currently feels this way, don't punish yourself for the fact that someone else hurt you. I have struggled a great deal with this, mainly in trying to come to terms with it and find a way to stand up for myself. But my biggest problem is how medical professionals and my parents have responded. To me, this is the penultimate form of sexual assault, and I need it acknowledged as such, and I need to have my experience result in some preventative action. However, my sexual partners have only ever been supportive. Some of them have struggled to understand at first. The worst response I've gotten is "that's a stupid thing to be upset about. how is this not hot?" or "stop complaining and get it fixed." Usually they just can't stand to see me sad about something and want to fix it. But I always have to explain it because I believe in 100% honesty in relationships, and I generally like to put all of my issues on the table before getting seriously involved. And because I know not being open and up front about what happened to me would only reinforce a sense of shame. No one is going to have reservations due to iatrogenic vulvar distortion. However, if you act like a complete emotional basket-case about it, they might. No one would reject you for something like this happening to you, but they might reject you for how you deal with it. That, for me, has been a bit scary ever since I set out to stand up for myself and get some sort of justice, and especially since i got the devastating letter from my doctor, as it has become more psychologically traumatic. But I'm not a quitter, so I'm not going to let go until I change hospital policy or make some comparable difference to prevent this from happening to others. In the mean time, I am single, only because I don't want to pull anyone else into this. When this is over, and I have stood up for myself, I will begin dating again. Despite my disfigured anatomy, I have been told I have a perfect body, and "am every guys dream." It is clear that vulvar aesthetics do not factor significantly into perceived attractiveness, just FYI.
Thanks for your candor. As a guy, I honestly don't really care what a lady's vulva looks like, as long as I can go down on it, lol :) Just as I don't think any lady really cares what guys have down there. I always thought they did until I started to understand that when a woman is into you, it doesn't matter what's down there at all!
So it sounds like you need a vibrator to get off, have you tried various positions to stimulate the g-spot? I dated a circumcised Egyptian girl once and was able to get her off even though her labia, clit hood, and clit had been excised. Sounds extreme I know but they do that over there like they do male circumcision here. Things took longer but she could get there with proper g-spot stimulation. She basically had a smooth slit kind of like barbie if you want to know what it looked like.
I suspect my current girlfriend had work done as her left labia is absent and there is a change in skin tone like a scar line. The right labia is almost absent, very small about 1mm or less. She has a very small clit and clithood but that appears to not have been touched. I've never said anything because it doesn't really matter to me, I like her for her.
I'm glad you're crusading for genital integrity. Here's to female and male genital integrity. We shouldn't have to modify the bodies we are born with, whether with labiaplasty for women or circumcision for baby boys, another unnecessary and very damaging procedure.
I tell people, if you want to make a difference in the US, don't circumcise your son and you've made a world of difference right there. For daughters, constantly reinforce that beauty comes from within.
I interact with women from all over the world every month that want labiaplasty surgery. Some contact me after they have had the surgery. Unfortunately not all of them do their due diligence and choose a surgeon that has no experience, training or skill. This is a minor procedure , sure. But as this story proves, there are some dire consequences and botched results.
The best advice anyone can give is to never have labiaplasty!!!
I'm sorry that you are in pain and cannot give any advice on that, but I can tell you that, just as has been said by countless victims, it's not what your labia looks like that matters. I feel that statement also applies to the labia of the women of post labiaplasty surgery. Life and love is about how you feel about yourself internally not physically. It's about the chemistry you can share with someone who loves YOU. I know this for a fact because I have a lot of psychological issues and my husband still is with me and loves me endlessly. I never let guys close and would break up when things started to get to serious. I was afraid... I was afraid of them knowing who I really was inside emotionally having bipolar type 2, anxiety, depression, ADD/ADHD and I was undiagnosed at the time. Then I met my husband...
When things started getting serious I sent him a very long email explaining all of my emotional experiences that I had tried so hard to hide. That was one of the hardest things ever and was scared he would think I was some sort of freak, but I felt it was fair to let him know and I'd he stayed I would know he truly loved me. Well, he married me and we have had many trying times dealing with my chemical imbalances but we've it through together.
My point being, that someone loved me inspite of all my flaws, including being self conscious, and I believe truly that love isn't bound by the physical but rather by the soul. Therefore if you are truly afraid then you should let the person know your whole story of the surgical procedure and how you feel now. Doing that can solve 2 things, one there will be no surprises and two is that if he doesn't care you will know that the relationship is based on love.
Thank you so much for saving me from a decision I could have regretted and please find comfort in how strong a person you really are for being able to share your story.
Hi guys.
Only read this forum again after about 5 months. Would really really love to get an online support group of some sort set up. It could potentially help so many people - myself included. I am heading to the Uk next week to have revision surgery in an effort to improve the aesthetic appearance and reduce the pain of my majorly botched labiaplasty. Its nearly a year since I had my initial procedure done. Since then I have been attending a psychiatrist and cbt councellor in an effort to heal the pain to some degree. I have found over the course of the last few weeks that I am getting increasingly anxious about the whole thing again. I am struggling with my decision to have the revision daily and wonder if i should just leave it as it is and learn to cope. Things could go horribly wrong again and i'd be in a worse prediciment. Its only now that I am seeing how psychologically destroyed that i am about the whole thing. It's so incredibly hard living the nightmare 24/7.
Miss regretful- I have read all your posts and I am actually in tears now. I cant believe that after four years that things havent improved for you. It makes me incredibly sad as I know that this is the same fate that awaits me. I really admire your strenght and courage. i wish you all the very best and hope that some day things get better
Any computer literate people out there who might know how to get the support group up and running ??????
kiki xx
For guest: Remember the people who are writing here are the ones who have had a bad experience. There are probably a thousand or more who have a very happy experience for every one who has a bad one.
I think the key is to make sure you find a reputable and experienced surgeon.
I'm not for or against having your lips trimmed, that's up to you. I like those lips but if they bother you, you should do what makes YOU happy.