I've been reading some posts on suboxone and thought I would share my experiences in the hopes that it may help others. I will share my actual drug use/addiction for a later post. For now, I just want to share my thoughts on suboxone. I apologize in advance for the long post. Again I just wanted to share some of my thoughts and experience with suboxone. I heard about suboxone from a friend. I made an appointemnt with a psychiatrist. After telling him about my drug use, over the previous 4-5 years, he agreed suboxone would be right for me. I have been taking one 8mg per day since august 08 and have not touched any pain pills since. My life is back to normal.
This is what I wanted to write about: I see so many people on this site (as well as a few friends of mine) who naively view suboxone as something to take simply to get past the miserable withdrawals of pain pills. They think that when they are through with that, they can stop taking suboxone. THe friends I know who have done this almost all go back to pain pills. The thing with suboxone is this- it is a part of a recovery program-- not a be all end all to addiction. Yes, the subs are great for not having to deal with the week or so of withdrawals, but more importantly-- they HELP curb the desire for pain pills. Because , even when you are done detoxing from pain meds, it takes a long time for your barin to begin functioning normally. As an addict, you will still have the desire to get high-- in many cases, people are depressed when first becoming clean. For someone who has been taking pills for a few years, subs should not be used as just an easy out from withdrawals. THey should be used, in conjunction with some kind of therapy, group meetings etc. When I asked my dr. how long he thinks I would need to be on suboxone, his answer was something like-- "when you, your family, your friends, and your therapist all agree that you are ready." IN the meantime, the subs have helped me put my life back together. Because of the subs, I no longer have the strong desire to get high. I can live a "normal" life. Yes, I still have fleeting urges here and there, but the subs are a kind of crutch. I know that even if I take a pain pill, it won't make me high, because the subs would block the opiates. I admit that I cannot trust myself at this point in time. to be honest, if I weren;t taking the subs, I would probably want to get high-- I probably would have by now.
For those who say, suboxone just replaces one addiction for another... I do not necessarily disagree. True you will have to eventually taper down from the suboxone. While I have not done this myself, I know it is something I will be able to get through with the help of my dr, family and friends-- when I am ready-- when I have gone through enough of therapy-- and I begin to understand why I began abusing in the first place-- when I can control the desire to get high. I know that now is not that time. Again, subs are not just something to use to escape withdrawals-- as I;ve said before-- they stifle the desire to get high. Please do not misunderstand me. I do not think subs are my life long answer. Again, I know eventually I will have to 1- deal with the ill effects of the weening process and 2- I will have to find a way to cope without an outside substance. It is just that I admit to myself, that I probably could not do all that right now, on my own.
I don't mean to be preachy here, but I don't get it when people say "I should have just gone cold turkey off the pain pills." For most drug addicts, this does not work. It is not just about will power, mind over matter, etc. Studies have shown that addiction is a kind of disease of the brain. To say, "I will get the drugs out of my system and just be done with them," (I mean pain pills here) without some kind of outside help is, in most cases foolish and dangerous. I am not saying suboxone is the best thing for every one. I only know what I have experienced and what I have seen from others.
I also notice people saying they are gettting them on the street. Some people on this site ask others what is the right way to ween off suboxone. NO ONE HERE CAN OR SHOULD GIVE THAT ANSWER. Every situation is different. Getting subs off the street, weaning on your own-- is, in most cases, a set up for failure. Again, if you have a problem, get help from a dr. True, there are some who will say the doctors don't know what they are doing, etcetc. I'm sure there are loads of stories about people who felt they were misinformed by a doctor, etc. It is easier said then done, but find a dr you can trust, who knows what he or she is doing. What is the alternative--- getting subs yourself and weening based on what someone on an internet site tells you?
And yes, I understand that the sub withdrawal is longer than actual pain pill withdrawal, because the subs have such a long half life. But I can't help but think that the bulk of people who complain that sub withdrawal is worse than pain pill withdrawal, either tapered incorrectly or attempted to do so on their own-- without the help of a certified dr. Again, I do not mean to be preachy. I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on suboxone. For me, it has been a blessing. A few months ago I was on the verge of losing everything- a career, friends, family, and my girl friend. Taking the suboxone has allowed me to live a normal life, without the need for pain pills. But at the same time I know that the subs are just apart of the solution, not the answer. I know that without them, I would have found some excuse to get high again.
This is what I wanted to write about: I see so many people on this site (as well as a few friends of mine) who naively view suboxone as something to take simply to get past the miserable withdrawals of pain pills. They think that when they are through with that, they can stop taking suboxone. THe friends I know who have done this almost all go back to pain pills. The thing with suboxone is this- it is a part of a recovery program-- not a be all end all to addiction. Yes, the subs are great for not having to deal with the week or so of withdrawals, but more importantly-- they HELP curb the desire for pain pills. Because , even when you are done detoxing from pain meds, it takes a long time for your barin to begin functioning normally. As an addict, you will still have the desire to get high-- in many cases, people are depressed when first becoming clean. For someone who has been taking pills for a few years, subs should not be used as just an easy out from withdrawals. THey should be used, in conjunction with some kind of therapy, group meetings etc. When I asked my dr. how long he thinks I would need to be on suboxone, his answer was something like-- "when you, your family, your friends, and your therapist all agree that you are ready." IN the meantime, the subs have helped me put my life back together. Because of the subs, I no longer have the strong desire to get high. I can live a "normal" life. Yes, I still have fleeting urges here and there, but the subs are a kind of crutch. I know that even if I take a pain pill, it won't make me high, because the subs would block the opiates. I admit that I cannot trust myself at this point in time. to be honest, if I weren;t taking the subs, I would probably want to get high-- I probably would have by now.
For those who say, suboxone just replaces one addiction for another... I do not necessarily disagree. True you will have to eventually taper down from the suboxone. While I have not done this myself, I know it is something I will be able to get through with the help of my dr, family and friends-- when I am ready-- when I have gone through enough of therapy-- and I begin to understand why I began abusing in the first place-- when I can control the desire to get high. I know that now is not that time. Again, subs are not just something to use to escape withdrawals-- as I;ve said before-- they stifle the desire to get high. Please do not misunderstand me. I do not think subs are my life long answer. Again, I know eventually I will have to 1- deal with the ill effects of the weening process and 2- I will have to find a way to cope without an outside substance. It is just that I admit to myself, that I probably could not do all that right now, on my own.
I don't mean to be preachy here, but I don't get it when people say "I should have just gone cold turkey off the pain pills." For most drug addicts, this does not work. It is not just about will power, mind over matter, etc. Studies have shown that addiction is a kind of disease of the brain. To say, "I will get the drugs out of my system and just be done with them," (I mean pain pills here) without some kind of outside help is, in most cases foolish and dangerous. I am not saying suboxone is the best thing for every one. I only know what I have experienced and what I have seen from others.
I also notice people saying they are gettting them on the street. Some people on this site ask others what is the right way to ween off suboxone. NO ONE HERE CAN OR SHOULD GIVE THAT ANSWER. Every situation is different. Getting subs off the street, weaning on your own-- is, in most cases, a set up for failure. Again, if you have a problem, get help from a dr. True, there are some who will say the doctors don't know what they are doing, etcetc. I'm sure there are loads of stories about people who felt they were misinformed by a doctor, etc. It is easier said then done, but find a dr you can trust, who knows what he or she is doing. What is the alternative--- getting subs yourself and weening based on what someone on an internet site tells you?
And yes, I understand that the sub withdrawal is longer than actual pain pill withdrawal, because the subs have such a long half life. But I can't help but think that the bulk of people who complain that sub withdrawal is worse than pain pill withdrawal, either tapered incorrectly or attempted to do so on their own-- without the help of a certified dr. Again, I do not mean to be preachy. I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on suboxone. For me, it has been a blessing. A few months ago I was on the verge of losing everything- a career, friends, family, and my girl friend. Taking the suboxone has allowed me to live a normal life, without the need for pain pills. But at the same time I know that the subs are just apart of the solution, not the answer. I know that without them, I would have found some excuse to get high again.
This was a very powerful post to read. I think it's important that you point out that recovery really comes from within and has less to do with the substance than your willpower. I think that suboxone is a very helpful tool in coming down from drug use, but like any tool you use, you have to utilize it properly to get the maximum result. I think that your experiences are invaluable information for anyone hoping to kick any habit--not just pain pills--and it was great reading this. Thank you for your experiences!
What do you think is the most important thing that you learned through this whole experience?
What do you think is the most important thing that you learned through this whole experience?
I also enjoyed reading this..And found it to be very informative but I'm still curious to know others experiences with suboxone withdrawal..
What the original poster said is true. I used sub for many years (at least 8) and it allowed me to continue life w/o ever needing nor craving other opiates. It works. However, when it becomes an issue is when one has decided to come off it for good. Sub takes so much longer to detox from than most other opiates--that's the insidious part of using subs. It's not taking it on a maintenance plan that causes the problems. Most users of the stuff I expect never come to this site when on sub, it's only when they are coming off and are looking for help and relief. So the point being, sub is good for what it does over the long term, but when the time to get off, it usually is a surprise to find out hard it is to free ones self from it....
I am 19 days out from dropping the Sub cold turkey with 24-32 mg of it in my system. I am a glutton for pain... But, after looking back, I most certainly bit off way more than I could chew. The pain was fantastic! Not just physical lower back pain, the runs, or the lack of energy, but the mental anguish mad me seriously respect that little 8 mg orange film more than ever!
I got off of Suboxone because it turned me into a hollow shell. I was on it for a long enough time to where I noticed that my attitude to everybody around me had changed. I was devoid of all emotions. I embraced anger and hatred, then I released it on anybody who was in the path of the tornado. I got pleasure from causing as much pain and suffering as possible. I would go out of my way to hurt people that I loved. THIS was why I got off that garbage.
I would lie, cheat, steal, then justify it (which is the worst thing of all) because, "I NEEDED THIS DRUG TO FEEL NORMAL."
I decided to get off that c**p and get my life back together. When the withdrawals began, I went outside and started to run. When it hurt too much or became too painful, I would keep pushing and thinking about the day I wake up and feel "GOOD." Tread carefully, doctors will not tell you all about what happens when you are on this stuff!
Holy c**p, I've forgotten about posting this over a year ago!! (I subscribed to it then and hadn't received any alerts until now)
I remember chronicling my wd from day 1 to ?? I don't know if you have caught this, but it might help you. It's here:
https://www.steadyhealth.com/suboxone_is_easy_to_come_off_t97841.html
I think my posts begin toward the middle of this thread. All I can say, going cold with 24mg/day is unimaginable. I wouldn't even try it nowadays at anything less than 0.1mg/day.
You've gone 19 days thus far, and that's remarkable. Stay with it, after another month, day by day, you WILL feel better, and this period will be a forgotten episode. You won't even come back here again. Hang in there..
I remember chronicling my wd from day 1 to ?? I don't know if you have caught this, but it might help you. It's here:
https://www.steadyhealth.com/suboxone_is_easy_to_come_off_t97841.html
I think my posts begin toward the middle of this thread. All I can say, going cold with 24mg/day is unimaginable. I wouldn't even try it nowadays at anything less than 0.1mg/day.
You've gone 19 days thus far, and that's remarkable. Stay with it, after another month, day by day, you WILL feel better, and this period will be a forgotten episode. You won't even come back here again. Hang in there..
congrats! this stuff is just aweful-multivatime and st johns wort really helped me..I was becoming a giant t**d while on subox as well, this is why I stopped. when I had to get my refil, I just cancelled the appointment and never went..I knew if it didn't stop now, it wouldn't stop for a very long time.
congrats again!
congrats again!
Just trying to help a few people who are on the suboxone bandwagon... My
experience my opinion hopefully it helps someone. I was addicted to
heroin, the real deal china white from NYC. I was messing around with
oxy in 2008 - 2009 whenever I could get it. Basically doing 40-80mg oxy a
day for 6 months. I felt Amazing like I was on top of the world I loved
those pills until I ran out of money and went without them for a few
days and I finally went to a detox after not sleeping or eating for
about 7 days. In beth israel hospital I was given a choice of detox,
meth or subs. I heard meth was bad so I chose subs not doing any real
research i knew i was in physical and emotional pain and would do
anything to get through this. The subs given at detox were like a
miracle but my addictive personality decided to ask my junkie roomate in
detox if he had any good connects for H. You know just in case. HAhahah
I had used H before but never had a solid connect. Upon leaving the
hospital I had 30 days of subs and a referral to a doctor for more that
my insurance would cover. All was good at home for a few weeks I felt
like I had my life back on the subs but that little man was whispering
in my ear call the dealer, stop taking the subs for a few days, get
really high on H and when I couldn't afford my run I would go back to
Subs. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSON I LEARNED: DO NOT GO ON SUBOXONE
IF YOU PLAN ON RELAPSING OR USING OTHER OPIATES IT WILL SET YOU BACK
WAY BACK. I was able to keep flipping drugs subs for a few weeks, H for a
week then back on subs. I did this over 30 times in the course of 2010
2011. Each time it was a little harder to get back on the subs. It
started with pain, restlessness, anxiety, sleeplessness and each time I
would go back to subs the length of time to feel better on them took
longer. Suboxone became my backup when I couldnt afford H. I flip
flopped between the two drugs for 3 years and moved to california in
sept of 2011 (no more china white). I had no doctor in cali so i had
about 60 8mg sub pills that my doc gave me before i moved. I tapered
from 8mg to 2mg a day in about a month with help of a nurse practitioner
who gave me clonodine and klonopin to help ease the withdrawls. I felt
like i was losing my mind and my body was falling to pieces I was 31
years old but felt 90. Then I went from 2mg to 0mg and was stuck in a
depression that i had never felt before. I felt like nothing, i did not
talk to my friends, turned my cell off for weeks and could not do
anything but shiver shake and get hot and cold all day. Through this sub
detox I was also experiencing cravings so bad I wanted to buy a plane
ticket back to NYC just to get that good stuff one more time, thats who
mentally sick I was. So i found a methadone and roxy dealer out in cali
and felt fine evertime I could get enough money to buy some pills but
the days i couldn't get them I was back in withdrawl hell. I did not
want to be alive. I lived to use and used to live. I then found a doc in
cali and got back on 8mg a day of subs because I was tired again of all
the BS that goes along with an opiate addiction. Again I kept my
methadone and roxy connection just in case. AGAIN HONESTY, HOW MANY MORE
CYCLES OF PAIN AND SUFFERING WAS I GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS TIME
BECAUSE I GOT THE SUBS FOR THE WRONG REASON. i WANTED THAT FALLBACK SO I
COULD STILL GET HIGH. Two weeks later I had a great job and was feeling
so much better. I stayed on the subs for about 3 months before i
stopped taking them AGAIN and went on the real opiates and back to subs
when i couldn't afford the pills. I went off the suboxone one last time a
few months ago and started doing 30mg roxys about 5 a day and 5-7 10mg
methadones. When I ran out of that stuff I felt worse than ever puking,
diahreer, no energy, no motivation, all the same withdrawl but worse.
Then I just wanted to feel better so I took an 8mg sub and went into the
hell of percipitative withdrawl for my first time. I really thought I
was going to die for a few days. I felt like I had the flu x10 and did
not sleep for days. That is the worst part not being able to sleep it
off and having all those pains and crazy running thoughts through my
head. Now I have been back on subs for a few weeks and found a better
doctor to help me realize that its all or nothing. I realized that
suboxone is a miracle drug if used correctly. Everyone is different and
you have to decide the right tappering schedule based on your body.
Everyone is different and if your doc tells you to stay on them longterm
you just become addicted to the subs. Its a dual addiction physical and
more so mental because we get so used to taking suboxone to feel better
especially in the morning. We have to totally reprogram our brains to
accept the fact that we can live without it. My new doc is doing a slow
taper. But the most important lesson i can tell you is that you have to
make a 100% commitment to getting clean and every relapse just makes it
harder to get back on suboxone and even harder to get off suboxone
because when you relapse your starting back to square one. If you like
pain and misery and suffering everyday of your life just for a few days
here and there of getting high then do what I did. If your serious DO
NOT RELASPE.. go to NA, talk to your doc, a friend a family member
anyone. I had to get honest with everyone in my life even my boss at my
new job because they can tell when I was doing good and taking my meds
but when I had a relapse and was trying to get back on the subs they
kept asking me if I was okay while I was sweating bullets in the nice
air conditioned office. I did not tell my boss the whole story but
enough so that he would understand I was getting off a strong medicine i
was prescribed for a long time. The more I kept the relapses a secret
and thinking I was fooling everyone but in reality I was fooling myself.
I have been on 6mgs now for a month and will see the doc in 2 weeks to
go down to 4mg. I have faith this time and don't want to do any other
drugs I am tired of always feeling sick and I sometimes wonder how it
feels to be normal. There is no middleground with opiates your either
addicted to them and live for them 24hrs a day 7 days a week or you use
the tools of recovery and the tool of suboxone to get though it a little
easier. SUBOXONE IS NOT FOR SOMEONE WHO STILL WANTS TO GET HIGH IT ALSO
DOESN'T WORK IF YOUR NOT HONEST. Have someone you can talk to or
someone that has been though it and talk to them it makes it easier
knowing that eventually one day you will feel good. I was afraid that
was never going to happen and still am but this time I am not relapsing.
I hope my story helps some of you. Just like any other drug suboxone is
a miracle and a monster it just depends on how one goes about using it.
Normal people get hurt get a script for pain killers they take them
feel better and thats it. Some people are born with addiction and when
that bottle of pain meds gives you that good feeling you just want it
over and over again. I am blessed with so many great things and people
in my life so I guess being an addict is what I have to deal with during
my short time on earth. on average a person only lives for around
30,000 days. thats not alot and it makes me depressed thinking about all
the wasted days i spent sick or nodding out eating my shoe laces. I am
32 now and feel like life is just begining. I have a 6 month plan to get
off the subs and a support system in case I have feelings of relapse.
Also Exercise is super important and the more exercise we get the faster
our bodies learn to produce their own endorphins. I take vitamin b
complex, drink lots of herbal tea and take milk thistle and st.johns
wort. They seem to help and I hardly noticed my transition from 8mg to
6mg. Wish me luck on going down to 4. Sending out lots of love to the
people who are struggling, suffering and those especially who have made
it through this, you all give me the strength to get up and live another
day. I now know its possible to get up one morning and not have to take
something to feel normal. Best wishes to everyone.
thank u 4 ur post. i am in subutex withdrwal myself. havent taken for 3-4 week, bin thru hell and still weak and pathetic, but i wont go back.....u can do it.....good luck x
I'm tapering off suboxone and I can't believe how hard it is! I started on 16 mg. about 4 yrs. ago, and now I'm down to less than 1 mg. I tried just stopping when I was on 2 mg. and felt fine, until about 4 days later. I woke up in the middle of the night SO SICK I wanted to DIE!! I was throwing up, freezing, had diahrrea, and was so weak I could barely move. My husband finally took me to the Emergency Room where they re-hydrated me, gave me medicine to stop the vomiting and stomach problems, and in about 3 hours I felt well enough to go home. I HATE SUBOXONE!! It's harder to get off than ANY other drug! I'm still taking a 2 mg. suboxone film, and cutting it into 3 pieces. I'm TERRIFIED to stop again! AND my dr. told me there would be no withdrawal! Stay away from suboxone, seriously, if you want to be drug free, taper off SLOWLY on the drug you're hooked on! Suboxone is a BRUTAL withdrawal!
How are you know
You're absolutely right.... a SLOW, and I mean VERY slow taper is a necessity to be free of the Suboxone/ Subutex addiction and to come out on the other side with minimal withdrawal. It took me almost a year of tapering (from 6mg's)- but during the last 4 months of it, I tapered from 2mg's down to less than 1mg. I had an 8mg strip left and made it last like 2 weeks, with my strips cut in 1mg's and took a 1mg for several days, then every other day... then every 2 days, etc. And I think I had about 2 weeks of minimal withdrawal, but nothing unbearable. Some of the hot/cold thing, some restless legs (but mostly at night) and a little depression. But it was not even CLOSE to the intense withdrawal I had originally when I was addicted to 180mg's hydrocodone a day. Not even 1/10th.
i have been on subs for two years 8 mg and it saved my life now my insurance wont pay anymore and i know whats going to happen and it sucks because every thing has been great for two years,now i will be back shooting dope and probably dead in a month.