I have been taking subs for a while now , I was taking 12 to 16 Lortab a day and got tired of how much money it costs and having to worry about withdrawals I have been "caught" a few times w/o pk's and just felt terrible like I was walking on the bottom of the ocean in a 1920's scuba suit you know the big ass ones with the attached hose or whatever. Finally found out about subs and was warned to not take a bunch....ever.... my first day I took 1/8th of a 8mg strip twice and kept that up for a few days a slight buzz which helped replace pk buzz. In my heart of hearts I know that I need to just quit everything but am not ready. I dont feel any side effects, im a smoker so i think i get a bit short of breath sometimes but thats a addiction of a different color now isnt it. I dont know how others feel but right now feel fine taking what I would say is now closer to 1/10th a 8mg twice a day.. just cut that lil guy with some scissors and thank the heavens i am no longer downing 8pks twice a day. Before when I tried to quit pks cold turkey nothing was fun my sole thought was how long do I have to go through this before I can start again. Without sub I would never have the willpower to quit. Unfortunatley I was a "functioning" addict, no one knew I was addicted except a very small circle and it remains that way. I now slowly feeling the need to stop subs mainly because I like the fact that I am able to have money for toys whereas before I had just enough to pay my bills and feed my addiction. I have no delusions of grandeur in the grand scheme of things I am still addicted to something its just not nearly as expensive on my wallet, as harsh on my body, and as heavy on my mind......well at least I hope its true for the whole "harsh on my body" statement...surely 2/10ths of a 8mg sub is not as bad as 14-16pks a day....right?
Yikes reading all this I cant help but get the feeling these problems stem from much more than sub use. I know it is not productive to be critical but I feel that the issues people are having is a mixture of many things not just the one. As for me I have been on subs for about 5 months I dont take much maybe go through a 8mg sublingual tab every 5 days. My advice is when first starting subs see how little you can get away with in the beginning so when you want to get off or just find a happy medium it is not a equivalent to the original drug you quit in the first place
David
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Yikes reading all this I cant help but get the feeling these problems stem from much more than sub use. I know it is not productive to be critical but I feel that the issues people are having is a mixture of many things not just the one. As for me I have been on subs for about 5 months I dont take much maybe go through a 8mg sublingual tab every 5 days. My advice is when first starting subs see how little you can get away with in the beginning so when you want to get off or just find a happy medium it is not a equivalent to the original drug you quit in the first place
I know a number of people on long term Suboxone 5-7 years +. Don’t be fooled by those very low doses. Oncologists use those doses the same as they use Fentynl or Morphine. Bupenophine is 100 times as strong as Morphine milligram for milligram Bup. at low doses under 4 mgs. It is as effective as Fentynl at doses from .2mg (that 2 tenths of 1 mg) up to 2 mgs. Everyone I know who has detoxed off of Suboxone has the same story. No matter what the dose, No Problem till they hit the last milligram or so. At those doses Suboxone is a Full Agonist no different than Morphine. If you have any doubt just Google Bone Cancer and Bupenorphine you will see it listed with Morphine and Fentynl as a Full Agonist and very effective in the most painfull of all cancers. I never share opinions, everyone has them. These are facts you can look them up online at REAL medical and oncology sites as well as the NIH.
David
Thank you for the reply I took your advice and did a little research it would appear in fact quitting subs is quitting and that you go through the same withdrawals whether it be from small dosage or bigger. Perhaps not as sharp with small doses but all the same having crappy withdrawal symptoms. I guess it was one of those cases with me where I was justifying in my mind that it wouldnt be so bad. Guess Ill find out eventually. In the end it would appear instead of quitting one drug with something seemingly innocent I just did the good ole fashion drug swap. Perhaps one more is in store for me just doing what the rest of americans do.....booze it up lol just kidding that is just as bad a idea but at least then I can get my fix at any corner store. Then again I was a pot head in HS perhaps I can let me freak flag fly. If only all drugs were as easy to get off as pot was... a few days of irritability and then nothing.
tobysmom wrote:
i put myself into rehab 2 get off oxycontin 10 mo's ago. the dr there asked what i intended to use for pain since i have severe deg disk disease, a neck injury that caused a temp total paralysis (neck down), lupus and other autoimmune diseases, etc. i told him i was hoping he'd tell me that & he threw his arms up. he put me on suboxone & like others, i was hesitant to trade 1 drug for another, but my 2nd day off everything, after having been given 8 mg sub to kick me into full withdrawals the day after i got there full of oxy, after the sub kicked everything out of my system i was back to shuffling along barely able to walk or bend at the waist. the restless leg junk which runs in my family and my son & i had long b4 ever using pain pills at all, after the sub kicked all out of my system the RLS was so severe i could not sit long enough to pee. i kid you not. i had to keep moving and after 24 hrs of that i took the rehab dr's advice and started on sub, which he said i'd probably need to be on for life. with my last few sub's i finally found the only dr in my area who accepted my insurance, got all my records faxed to them & was accepted as their patient having been verified as needing the suboxone for chronic pain control - not only for opiate dependency. this drug has changed my life. between the suboxone and lyrica i am probably more active than i've been in years, and my mother says i am 'more normal', also, lol. but she and many ppl who cared about me had gotten used to seeing a crazy person on so many percocets, norco, lortabs, oxycontin, even morphine, that i was barely able to take care of myself at times. now i'm reading about all the side effects from long-term use of the suboxone, and yes, i'm seeing severe dry mouth, but i already had due to having 'Sjogren's', an autoimmune disease that also causes bad dry mouth. now i know what's causing the vision problems as well. my glasses aren't that old but i'm taking them off, putting them back on, and half the time can't figure out which way is better. and the weight gain!!! i've gained 25 lbs and i'm barely 5 ft tall so that's several jean sizes! i have 2 closets full of clothes i desperately need to go thru and donate or throw away more than half. the only other thing i'm curious about - is anyone else experiencing severe SUGAR CRAVING? i canNOT get enough sugar! b4 the sub i rarely could eat a whole candy bar, and now it's a battle to keep myself out of the donut places and i've put away 3-4 chocolate long johns at a time! dr says that's from the lyrica and we tried changing that to Vimpat but i've had to beg off that and go back to the lyrica while promising to watch my weight! for the dry mouth i use the Biotene products and there's a new Act total care mouthwash that's for dry mouth. i've heard about another mouthwash/gargle called Oasis but have not been able to find it anywhere. oh one last thing.... has anyone had any trouble urinating? i've had to go on Flomax and i don't know if my dr knows what's causing this and isn't telling me or what. i'm nearly falling asleep in the bathroom sometimes middle of the night having to bear down way too hard to get the stream going. all these things.... i am TERRIFIED of the alternative if i have to go off the sub! back to a wheelchair? the RLS so bad i've honestly gone 48+ hrs without sleeping before when off everything and even before starting TAKING pain pills! i did asked my dr once if there'll come a time when i should expect to be able to go off the suboxone. he looked at me like he was either baffled at my stupidity or he didn't know how to say it but got the point across: if there comes a time when i expect to miraculously have no pain i should let him know. otherwise..... (sorry so long - if anyone would like to correspond & share info let me know). NAMASTE, everybody!
I have been on Suboxone since it was licensed around 8 years now. It dont effect your teeth, brush them, I do get some dry mouth but am on antidepressant now 17 years and that is probably causing it. I got me Masters degree in Computer Science at Harvard all while on Suboxone so those who think it effects their minds, look elswhere. It is just one hour a month for the appointment after 24 years of shooting heroin and methadone maintenance, which was like taking thorazine every day. I said it was a miracle drug the first day I took it and still think so. I have no other symptoms so I am very suspicious of all the stuff people think is happening to them from Suboxone. Think really hard and look elswhere. I dont recomend it for young people who dont have pain issues or long term for people abusing narcotics for short periods of time. Withdrawing from Suboxone can be long and very uncomfortable and lead to relapse for long term addicts. I had 7 years clean in 12 step and still go occasionally for supprot but after a pain issue 8 years ago I started Suboxone as an insurance policy. I came from 24 years of hell and many dead friends. For me it is a miracle drug. This is not for everyone.
David
The problem is that that if the doctor gave you heroin every days you never ran out you would feel just as fine as you do on suboxone.People dont realize this. Stop either and you get sick. Just like if we rran out of oxys we never got sick. Its a scam. And not the maker pulled the tabs so they can enrich themselves another 10 years, on the same drug, in a diffrent form of strips. Its all a scam.
Suboxone is NOT A wonder drug it doesn't do c**p for me and I tried it for 5 years The Withdrawal is very damaging as well
I have been taking suboxone for 5 years and it doesn't help me. I currently taking 3 a day for pain management. Although, it does help relieve some of my pain, it doesn't work for opiate dependency. The withdraw is severe and last a lot longer than 2 weeks. I do not believe there is a wonder drug to cure an opiate addiction. Although I did find subutex to work a lot better most insurance companies will not cover this drug. However they will cover methadone, and that is a whole other story.
Suboxone over 4 mg is an Agonist/Antagonist even without the naloxone. If your doctor is telling you that more Suboxone over a few milligrams will help with the pain he is mistaken or uninformed. Very low dose of Bup are full agonists like Morphine, doses above 4mg don’t give any additional pain relief. Considering how long you have been on with acute pain you are probably almost totally tolerant to suboxones agonist properties. The doctors are in a bad position with this. When treating opiate addicts for pain the law states that they can co administer other narcotics and should not treat the patient’s pain any differently than non addicts but be very careful to control it. The problem you are having is that your doctor is either unwilling to bring your Suboxone down to a few milligrams then treat your pain with a drug that can cut through it like Fontanel. That is the recommendation from the NIH. Recommendation or not most doctors don’t want to have to be writing Class 2 scripts for chronic pain to a known addict since all schedule 2 drug prescriptions are traced by drug control. I worked in pharmacy for a number of years and have had this discussion with a number of physicians. Personally I think it is unethical to not inform the patient of this option and also unethical to tell a patient that high doses of suboxone will treat their chronic sever pain. So you know your doctors better than I obviously. Ask yourself this question, is he unethical, incompetent, uniformed or afraid to deal with managing your use of other pain meds. Personally any of those would send me running to another Highly Qualified Pain Expert or clinic experienced with these types of issues. There is NO REASON for anyone to suffer needlessly because their doctor can or won’t deal with it. You obviously have internet access. Do the research and you will eventually find the right solution. David
To whom it may concern,
I was writing because your post really resonated with me. I was hoping we could correspond about a few things. Is that your email address?
Sincerely Me
i have been on 32 mg's of suboxone for about 18 months now, i read one post that suggest possible vision problems and other medical conditions, i too am having vision prblems and now wear glasse's, although even with these reports of health issues i dont believe suboxone is the culprit for my vision i think its age, ohter then this problem i have noticed no other health issues from my taking suboxone, i have also taken it in the past but on shorter time frames, i live in nyc now and they have a long term treatment facility here for treating addiction, and so far so good, i am however going to be switching to methadone for other reasons, the main one is ,, i will soon be moving bk to ohio and they have no suboxone clinics where i live but they do have one methadone clinic, thats why i came to this site, was to read on what others are saying about long term use of these drugs ( suboxone & methadone ) ,, good luck to you
sounds like you are weaning too fast. example; i have been dependent on suboxone for eight years. i have LOTS of experience with trying to come off of it. this time im not rushing it, i have gone from 12 milligrams a day down to .5 milligrams a day. this took 16 months to do without any of the side effects you are suffering.suggestions;reduce your dose by 1 or maybe 2 milligrams a week. you must wait at least 72 hrs. before stepping down your dose due to the long acting nature of buprenorphine. if you go any faster than that you compound the withdrawals with each reduction of dose(step). anyway, you need this kind of time to adjust psychologically to living a sober existence otherwise all this suffering will be for nothing because the kind of withdrawals you are going through almost always lead you back to square 1.
you need to wean yourself off gradually. at this point you should be able to cut that dose considerably without getting sick. when i was where you are(exactly where you are) 8 months in, 32 mil. a day, two kids, a job, panicking... i was able to cut the dose in half without too much trouble. the trick is dont take the next step until at least 72 hrs after that. i have been at this a long time and i want to help you. email me and i wil correspond when i have more time and after thinking about it.
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P.S. stop panicking, a large part of why you think you still need so high of a dose is psychological.