Labiaplasty Nightmare

According to Dickinson and Zwang 67% of women have a protruding clitoral hood and/or protruding labia minora. Size of labia majors also greatly impacts extent of protrusion. If labia majors are underdeveloped, even very small labia are likely to protrude. For women who describe their clitoris as protruding this is terminologically incorrect. Your clitoris is normally covered by your clitoral hood. It should not be exposed or protruding during normal activities. According to Lloyd, crouch et al the average labia size is 2.2 cm, with a standard deviation of .9. There methodology is described at length and incorporates the use of photographs to ensure consitency. You can trust this data. The labia minora are important functional tissue that play an essential role in sexual arousal. There are numerous studies demonstrating their dense innervation and involvement in sexual response. If all of your labia are removed please report to your state medical board, surfery center or hospital, and pursue a lawsuit. If enough fuss is made about this people will start establishing standards and training requirements. Unfortunately because of the way the healthcare system is set up, this will not happen until it becomes a problem for doctors. Thus, things don't generally change until enough doctors get sued. It's obviously a terrible system model but pursuing a lawsuit is the most effective thing you can do to prevent future patients from being hurt

Hi guest, I like your posts and may I suggest that you chose a name and sign in? It would be nice to at least feel we are reading the same person's writings instead of any one of a few thousand "guests" that are on tthe site at ant given time.

I hope you manage to make some difference with all your efforts. There are so many people, as evidenced here, who know so little about their own bodies. I think it's almost criminal that they don't have the opportunity to learn as they are growing up. I see questions from teen aged boys who have just learned there is something inside their foreskin that they should be able to expose by pulling it back and teen aged girls who call their vulva a vagina because they don't even know the terms for what is there.

I hope you'll hang around to help.

I wrote the super long posts on page 8 and 9. I was just writing another post but it got deleted because I pressed something random on my iPhone. I just moved and don't have Internet so it will probably be a few days before I can efficiently post anything else. Just a quick note however: it appears that many women are confused about whether or not their surgeries were botched. One simple solution to this problem is to call Dr. Alters office, and schedule a phone consultation (for I think only like $75). He will give you an honest opinion and be able to tell you if a repair is possible. I'm not telling you to have surgery again. I'm just saying that would be a simple easy way to get your questions answered, certainly easier than trying to figure it out yourself, expecting your original surgeon to disclose the error, or asking random people on the Internet. I'm also not saying I condone his business practices or agree with everything he publishes, but he is probabably the most qualified to perform repairs of severely botched surgeries. He is also very smart and will be sympathetic to your situation, which I know having spoken to him myself.

Oops I think I misinterpreted Inez's explanation. My understanding is that she has had all of her labia minora completely removed. If this is not the case, then I retract my statement. Amputation, as a technique, is commonly used and defensible on a number of grounds. It is entirely possible that her anatomy could have made it so this was the preferred method. However complete amputation of the labia minora is not defensible. Obviously no patients anatomy would render preservation of any labia minora impossible. Inez, if you still have some labia left, chill out. You are probably fine. In addition if surgical scars do not extend dorsally above your clitoris, clitoral nerve damage is not at all likely and I'm sure your sex life would be fine.

What's worse is that doctors often don't use these terms correctly. "Vagina" is used to refer to the vulva even in medical literature. Labiaplasties are termed "vaginal rejuvenations."

I've contacted Dr Alter few days after my surgery, but it was too soon for him to say anything. I will contact him again in four months, beacuse I have to heal. I have to say that I'm not from America, so Dr. Alter is financially almost inaccessible. But if I continue to fell this way... There is no price on happiness is it? There is no labia left. Only clitoris. I would like to find some link with pics, that are similar to my case, so that you know what am I talking about. Is that alowed?

I have recently pursued a lawsuit because of complete amputation. It was  and IS horrifying. Along with the amputation, is surgery on my perineum which I NEVER discussed. Also, I have loss of sensation : (  (I cannot talk too much about it without intense anxiety) and also I have pain in many spots, especially where the scar tissue is awkwardly stitched. It's the worst personal experience I've had... and I've never regretted anything more than this. It should NOT be allowed and should be STOPPED. 

Welcome to the group, Listenup. I think you'll enjoy it here. We do spend a bit of time attempting to decipher some of the questions due to incorrect terminology but it's generally rewarding to feel you may have helped someone.



"vaginal rejuvenations." LOL

I like that one. Do they also have penile rejuvenations? At my age I could use one of those.



Maybe I was just plain lucky to have learned some of the terms. When I was a freshman in high school I found a homework paper someone left in my home room desk. It was a drawing of a vulva with the parts all labeled. We certainly didn't have any sex-ed classes in the early 50s so it must have been for a biology class that I never took because I was into things electrical.



It bewilders me that a doctor would perform such abominations or that they would not discuss what they were about to do with the patient. I would never let a doctor do any elective surgery on me without knowing exactly what it was going to be, but that may be due to my age and experience.

My doctor did tell me what he intended to do and that was written in my consent form "excision of redundant labia." though he was not clear about how much he would leave, I assumed he would know best. I felt uncomfortable asking questions because my doctor was an older man and I was barely 18, and really naive. It is clear my doctor did not intend to remove all of my labia. In his letter to me he says "I was surprised at how atrophied your labia were following your surgery, but when I asked you if you were satisfied, you said yes, so I assumed it wasn't a problem." at that time I did not understand female sexual function so I didn't realize reduced sensation was a problem or his business. I really don't know how I could have been so clueless. Anyway, note that he was surprised and that he fails to take responsibility for what he did. In one of dr. Alters papers he comments on how this unintended result occurs. My labia obviously did not atrophy. They were removed in surgery and were completely gone by the time I examined my result the following day. Though I was surprised, I just though "oh well" and figured no labia was just as good as small labia. I also didn't really understand the difference between the labia and the clitoral hood. I somehow couldn't find my clitoris either. I was not stupid (I had just gotten a 1540 on my sats), I just wasn't educated about the anatomy, even though I had tried to be, I just didn't get it. My doctor also performed a clitoral hood reduction unintentionally. He denies doing this despite the fact that I have surgical scars extending almost to the midline above the glans. This has been verified by other doctors. Unfortunately, because the scars are so small, ob gyns do not notice them unless I point them out. They haven't even been able to tell I've had a reduction, even though the anatomy is distorted. This is pretty pathetic since Dr. Alter was able to tell from a picture. That's why I strongly urge people to examine themselves carefully and/or get examined by an expert. I guess that the point of this post is to say that the problem isn't only that doctors don't adequately explain the expected result. It can also be that doctors fail to achieve anything remotely close to the intended result because they have no idea what they are doing. And also, that doctors may not even be able to identify their error or even be able to identify the surgical site. This is obviously so ridiculous it is hard to believe. But I have in writing a letter from my doctor where he claims he does not know what I am talking about because he thinks he stayed far away from my clitoral frenulum. In actuality, he reduced my clitoral hood, and removed labia past the bifurcation point, thus removing tissue from my frenulum. I would suspect such idiocy is not uncommon given my other experiences with ob gyns since my surgery and also my doctors stellar reputation. He was former president of the texas medical association, is on the board at aetna, and is considered one if the best ob gyn surgeons at Baylor. Tell me that isn't scary. I think that if a doctor with such a good reputation can make this kind of error, and not even be aware of it, this is probably a relatively common problem. Also when I suggested the mechanical role of the labia minora, as described by masters and Johnson was disrupted, one very smart urogynecilogist said "I don't think most ob gyns have ever thought of the mechanical role of the labia minora." this is sad. Btw, I also think disrupting clitoral hood mechanics affects perceived clitoral sensitivity, and that this should be relatively obvious. Anyway, this urogyn. suggested I go see a transsex surgeon, based on the fact that a previous transex patients ob gyn was unable to tell she was transex. But I've seen the post op pictures from the surgeons site and they look nothing like real women. I don't think any transsex post ops really look like real women. Frankly I think it's pretty ridiculous that ab ob gyn wouldn't be able to tell the difference and just shows what a vague understanding many of then have. My apologies to any ob gyns who are offended by this statement, as I am only making a judgement based on experience with 4 doctors and my review of the green journal. I just think it is scary. I have yet to find any doctors who understand female sexual anatomy and function as well as I think they should. Though I do not doubt there are many doctors who can perform labisplasty safely, I think this is almost by accident, as no one discusses anatomical and functional concerns in sufficient detail or in reference to studies of anatomy, neurophysiology, and female sexual response. I think that is scary. It also may be difficult to tell who is qualified and who is not. Even when surgeons have undergone training, this seems relatively worthless if they were trained by someone frequently sued and reported to the state board of California, who has not published anything remotely legitimate, and who, judging from his postop pics, really must be butchering people on a regular basis. As one surgeon has remarked "the field of cosmetic genital surgery is like the wild, wild west: wide open and unregulated." frankly I strongly urge against this surgery unless your labia are actually over 5 cm long (considered the upper limit of normal according to the study in bjog). Before you undergo this surgery please consider how important your sexual health is to quality of life. Do not trust reports of increased sexual function as this is not likely of physical cause. This is supported by a study of 6 post op women in the bjog, for whom further questioning revealed this perception is most likely psychological, and highly dependent on expectations before surgery, cognitive dissonance, etc. There is really no physiological basis for this except in the potential cases where it leads to improved mechanics regarding how friction is transmitted to the clitoris. Still, I really think these surgeries can be dangerous. Even when the risk is low, the degree of potential harm and effect to quality of life is high. This is true even with the best surgeons. Seriously. I'm not even against cosmetic surgery. Go get your tits, nose, and whatever else done, but leave your vulva be. Until standards are established, and these surgeries are properly regulated, and justified on the basis of scientific fact, they just aren't safe and the downside, I think, is too great. Also, I believe there are many women, like me, who may be getting surgery because they don't have a good idea of the range of normal. There is one study in the bjog of 33 women seeking labial surgery under the nhs. 15 have labia below the reported mean for all women. It is no surprise 66% of the women in the study had never been sexually active before, and the average age was 23. Though I do not doubt that some women benefit from these surgeries, I think most women are pursuing these surgeries because they are uninformed regarding normality and function, and do not understand the risks they are taking. Also, please question the validity of advertised ideals as labiaplasty surgeons are essentially the primary arbiters of vulvar aesthetics. Though I get that soft core porn magazines like playboy feature minimal labia, maybe ask yourself is there could be any reason why this is. After all, fashion magazines feature models with bmi's of like 15-16, but studies of beauty show that ratings of physical attractiveness decrease exponentially below a bmi of 17. And most guys would think someone who was like 5'10 and 105 lbs looked gross. But I know when I was 12 I bought into it, lost 10 lbs even though I was already skinny, because it was just really easy for me, and didn't understand what the proven was because I wasnt any skinnier than, say, Kate moss when she was younger, and I thought that's what everyone wanted. The reason I was so susceptible to these messages is because I was reading fashion magazines constantly, was really young, and wasn't presented with opposing evidence because I was sort of a nerd and didn't watch tv or anything. So the problem really is information bias. Is playboy representative of the ideal? Or could this be part of a marketing strategy to reach a more mainstream audience by limiting explicitness? It seems like there are much bigger labia in hard core porn, especially if it european, so what's that about? How real is this so called ideal? And what is it based on. I think it's based on a misunderstanding of female anatomy, and a general failure to even acknowledge vulvar anatomy. I know when I was little I was taught I had a vagina and everything was relatively unobtrusive until I hit puberty at which point I was like WTF mate? And the only vulvas I'd ever seen we're pubescent vulvas. So I think on some level maybe people visually prefer what they are used to looking at. I think lack of acknowledgement of vulvar anatomy is a symptom of a societal lack of acknowledgement of female sexual response. Female orgasm is treated so vaguely and abstractly it's really silly. There is a very observable pattern of response, very similar to in males, except without ejaculation a lot of times. That's it whats so hard. And it's a he'll of a lot more observable if you have sone labia to swell up during the arousal phase. Whatever, back to the ideal part. Before my surgery I tried really hard to figure out what was normal and if it was bad to have large labia so I entered search terms like "large labia" and back then there was much less good info then there is today so I came to the conclusion I had a very abnormal, embarrassing problem even though I didn't at all. But it's interesting I think how different the results are if you enter large or small p***y lips (of they censor this it's supposed to be in slang and be synonymous with cat) instead of large labia or small labia. Another thing that's interesting to observe, though not scientific, and possibly offensive to some so I apologize for that, is comments on porn sites about pussies. There are more obviously for solo videos. Also, have you ever noticed who complains about ugly labia? It seems like it's always women. And it seems like guys who like going down on girls like lips. Right after I had my surgery I thought I looked good because I just didn't know any better and I'd gotten some idea that lips were ugly. But now I think they are erotic. I think it's really sad looking to have no lips. I wish I had my old lips back, full and potty just like the ones in my face. I don't understand why women buy into the idea that it is ugly. It's interesting because usually standards of beauty are consistent with evolution/biology like waist-to-hip ratio for example. It seems like everytime a standard of beauty is contrary to what should be a biological imperative, it is fabricated. This one doesn't make sense. Labia are bigger when aroused. Labia are bigger in fertile women. Excess androgen during fetal development causes congenital hyperplasia, where there are minimal or no labia. Who had the smallest labia? Little girls and old women. Minimized vulvas in some medical texts due to drawing from postmemapausal cadavers. So wait a second everyone. How does this even make sense? Labia are explicit. Not featuring prominent labia in softcore mags could be for the same reason women might be more turned on looking at a guy wearing underwear rather than completely naked. Genitals are genitals. Girls have them too. Who came up with the idea they are supposed to be invisible? Idea that feminity is defined as genital absence is a sociocultiral notion not rooted in medical fact of sex differentiation. Especially in cases where the clitoris is small but the labia are large that is biologically, incontrovertibly feminine. For it to be masculine the labia would need to unite and join up with the clitoris ventrally to form a single phallus. Estrogen receptors in labia are involved in gene expression and labia growth. Honestly I bet if they did a study, natural labia under .5 cm would correlate with a higher level of dysfunction since low estrogen levels are correlated with both dysfunction abs atrophy. I dunno. I'm just postulating that in general there would be a correlation, though I'm sure many perfectly healthy women also have small labia. I'm getting off track. Still on my phone sorry for the typos. I've been too lazy to get Internet. I've been thinking about this surgery way too much. It's making me depressed so I'm going to take a break.

Hi, sorry i've been losing track of posts, i have commented a few times before i think... so it's coming up 3 years since i had this done now, i'm only just 18... Things have gotten a lot better than i thought they'd ever be, but not a day goes by where i don't regret having this "procedure" done. I just wondered if there is a way any of us could chat more privately about this, help each other out and stuff through email or something? some of the odd hurtful comments that get put on here by clueless idiots are heartbreaking...

I had labiaplasty in 2007 and have been in pain since. My surgeon based in Los Angelas had been featured on the tv show Dr 90210 and his methods are to reduce the labiaplasty with laser.

I had seen him on so many American and British surgery programmes that I thought he had all the experience needed. It says on his website that he is a board certified gynecologic surgeon and a full fellow of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery.

I paid for my consultation and surgery fees by credit card prior to the consultation as my surgeon told me via email that it was a simple proceedure and I could have my consultation when I arrived in LA, and a day before surgery. However, when I arrived for my consultation,

I was told the surgeon was too busy to see me, so I had to come back on the day of surgery to have the first consultation. Again he was busy and rushed through the consultation. I told him that all I wanted was to have my labia minora reduced so they did not hang down. He agreed to do this and his nurse showed me pictures of previous patients,the results, did look good.

When I was wheeled into the operating theatre, the surgical staff couldn't find him and we waited a good 20minutes. He then arrived yawning and told me he had been flying all over the place for conferences, at this point I became concerned. He told me to relax. The next thing, I am waking up in the recovery room. His nurse said they had been concerned as they expected me to wake much sooner. I then needed the tiolet and she escorted me.

When I looked down, there was a GAPING HOLE IN MY MONS PUBIS AREA. It was about and inch and a half wide and inch tall, I was mortified. I had not asked for this, only a labia reduction.

I was then driven to my hotel where I stayed for five days until my post op oppointment prior to flying home. Once the anesthetic and pain killers ran out, I knew there were serious problems. Over the course of the first two weeks, this gaping hole closed up, but in doing so, caused spasms to my pelvic floor musles, especially in the left hand side. I rang the clinic and spoke to my surgeon's staff as he was alsways "too busy" and his staff told me not to panic and it was just nerves. But I knew differently.

Once that hole had closed up, it caused so many problems underneath. On the right hand side, the labia minora (inner labia) healed well and tucks in under the labia majora (outer labia). But on the left, there is constant friction, as the left side does not close properly. Also, because of the friction, the stitches in the left labia split and I was left with a gaping hole and now a scar which is still sore.

Since the procedure I have also had spasms in my left pelvic floor muscle, plus pain from my groin to my hip on the LHS. I can only lie in bed with my legs apart. Sitting is also very uncomfortable and exercise causes severe pain.

The top of my left labia has now also split and hanging. It's a mess.

I GOOGLE SEARCHED my surgeon the other day to see if he is still practising and he is being SUED for botched surgery he carried out on a woman named Patricia  in 2007, the same year as my surgery! He has also been quoted as saying that these women who have complained of botched surgery as being "nuisance cases" which gives you an idea of what he thinks about his patients.

To sum up, I always wanted this procedure as my inner labia was getting in the way, but I wish I had found a decent surgeon. I honestly thought he was a good surgeon in that he has credentials and a website with plenty of examples of his work, but I have since discovered there are many women who are not happy with the results of his work. What initially angers me is that he didn't even listen to my request. I never asked to have a section of my mons pubis lased away, all I asked for was a inner labia reduction. I have been researching the possibility of having revision surgery as I am in so much pain because of the friction and scar.

I live in the hope that something can be done and I won't be in pain for the rest of my life. I really hope my surgeon has his licence removed before he destroys more lives.

 

 

NOTICED A TYPO error in my last post, it was just to say that the surgeon in Los Angelas who performed my surgery, has(I found out from google seraches last week) been sued 10 times for malpractice in the past 10 years at Los Angelas County Superior Court. According to ACOG, ob-gyns are sued 2.6 times in their entire career! It highlights how negligent my surgeon is and I can't understand why he is still allowed to practice. He had been sued BEFORE my surgery, yet I only found out recently, I feel so angry that internet searches have only just uncovered this.

Hi all.
Mind if I join....I am sorry that you are all going through the same personal hell that I am experiencing at the moment as a result of a botched labiaplasty. Unless you have gone through this personally  you couldn't truly understand the devastating effects that this can have on every facet of your life. I had a wedge procedure perfomed mid 2010 and within 2 weeks the stitches had totally dehished on both sides. The doctor attempted to re-suture the area - only for the same thing to happen again. My labia are now gaping open with holes and lumps of scar tissue along the suture lines. I have been to a specialist who has told me that far too much tissue was removed from the v so that the area can never be closed again. My only hope according to the surgeon instead of closing the gap is a re-shaping of the remaining tissue to look somewhat better. It will never look normal and I will have loss of sensation in that area as a result of all the botched attempts. I am now in constant pain. Instead of subsiding, the pain has increased as time goes on as layers of scar tissue have formed. I am at my wits end.. totally devastated.
I can't cry anymore...sick of feeling anxious, scared or depressed.
My gp has advised that I take a case against the surgeon that performed the initial procedures. I have initiated proceedings with a solicitor but this is adding to my trauma at the present time. I am so scared that after expending so much money and time that I'll get nowhere. I've never heard of anybody taking a successful case... dont even know if these types of cases are able to be won. I dont even want monetry compensation only that they would pay a specialist to fix the area as best they can once and for all.  Has anybody any advice in this regard. Would love to hear if anybody was successful. It might boost my spirit a bit.
Would love also if anybody had any tips to rid myself of the anger and resentment that i have bottled up inside me. I cant go through the rest of my life like this.
Thanks in advance
Kiki x

sorry just noticed typo... had it done in mid 2011!

Thanks for your comments, they are very insightful and you are obviously very intelligent.


I have some questions. Have you had sex since the operation (you said you were a virgin at the time of surgery). If so, was it enjoyable or were you thinking too much of what happened to enjoy it? Also, did you share what had happened to your partner?