Please read the entire post below: Make sure you do your research for both. Esp Phenibut. Phenibut is similar to xanax but in powder form (legal in the USA). helped with anxiety and physical withdrawl symptoms. It effects your GABA receptors, which Alcohol does. So it's effects are similar to that. But w/o having to drink a few drinks. Its unlike any other chemical. But it has helped. But keep in mind that you should only use it for like two days. And leave 4-5 days to let it clear out of your system. It's w/d symptoms suck in their own. And tolerance builds quickly. You should be taking no more than 1.5 grams a day. And really, you should start with less depending on your body size, bc you can become sick if you take too much. So start low, and you can always take more. And just know that it does not peak for like 3-6 hours. It takes about two hours to feel the effects. Its werid like that. But you just trial and error, and then you'll see the benefits. HERE IS A "GAY" WEBSITE BUT HAS A GREAT INSTRUCTIONAL/ INFORMATIONAL REVIEW ON PHENIBUT http://www.goodlookingloser.com/2012/06/19/phenibut-review/ And on the days off from Phenibut, I would use Kratom. So I would use Kratom for like 5 days, then phenibut for 2. This will give your body time to allow for both drugs to get out of your system. Phenibut is long acting so you need more time before you re-use. Where Kratom is shorter acting, so you only need like a day or two to clear that out. Much like Phenibut or any substance, You also need to play with Kratom dosages. If it doesn't work the first time or two, dont give up! And before you start detoxing and taking these substances, make sure you are feeling the withdrawl from Suboxone, Or you risk the potential to send yourself into a premeditated withdraw from the Suboxone. So you should wait at least 24 hours from your last sub dose. Some people its 36-48. But for me it was less than 24hrs. The fun part of Kratom is that you can get an opiate type high. But its nothing like real opiates. Just kinda makes you feel good warm = to oxy codone 2.5 for an hour or two. There are also many different types of methods for taking kratom. I have found that buying Crushed leaf Bali and making tea with it (just add Splenda to sweeten it), gives you the best effects. You can just toss and wash. But tea was easiest, and gave me the best effects. I buy my kratom from Bouncing bear botanicals. Fast shipping and great quality. and I bought my Phenibut on Amazon/ebay. (read reviews) Google is your best friend for things like this. And don't take one persons answer as your final conclusion.
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2 weeks max and you will be thru it... All these people saying its "horrific" after 2 days.... Thats just not true... Long half life.. you shouldnt feel too bad till day 3 or 4... Then completely well after 2 weeks..
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1. One of the main things to take is 5HTP vitamins ($15). Buy the 50 mg pill form and not the capsules. Take 100 mg the first few days or until u figure out the right dosage. This stuff saved me! It almost makes u feel high. But happy high. 5htp is used for anxiety n depression so it releases seretonin in ur brain to put u in a good mood. It also calms ur nerves so u can sleep.
2. Multi vitamin
3. Viramin C (At least 1500 mg)
4. Vitamin B
5. L-tyrosine vitamins (for energy)
6. Amino acids (powder for a drink)
7. Sauna/steam room (15-20 mins at least once a day for 5 days)
I know this all seems like a lot but it's worth it and it'll clean u right out so u can start ur life again. Good luck everyone!
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This drug is mind blowing! Was on Sub for 2 1/2 years and now have a few days shy of 3 months off! Victory can be claimed although it is NOT easy! The first 10 days i didn't sleep at all which is very hard mentally! YES I went through all the sever w/d that lasted about 10 days. it is very hard but you have to make up your mind and get off for good! A solid support person or persons will be needed during the first ten days, without it you may give in! This has been one of the hardest things I've gone through! Im still so TIRED, EMOTIONAL, CONFUSSED, DEPRESSED among many other physical problems! I read on one of these forums that someone said they felt like they had cancer, everything felt soooo bad. I can totally relate to that statement, I feel the same 90% of the time! Suboxone is being called the new clean...BS! I had 8yrs of sobriety, I know what clean is and its NOT sticking a pill under your tounge every day! I will make it! There is NO desire to go backwards but I sure hope I start to feel better in the near future!!!
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I've been on Sub since January. It helped me get rid of Oxycodone after spinal-fusion. Today is my third day without Sub. I just stopped suddenly on my own. I'm at work but I can't focus, and every task seems daunting. I don't want my collegues to notices any difference in me. I don't have body aches but I'm confused, I'm queese and have lost my appetite. Meanwhile, my work is piling up and I can't take off. If I could just stay home, curled up on my sofa, I know I could do this. I want to do it to make my family proud of their mom. I don't know that I can....
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terey124 wrote:
I've been on Sub since January. It helped me get rid of Oxycodone after spinal-fusion. Today is my third day without Sub. I just stopped suddenly on my own. I'm at work but I can't focus, and every task seems daunting. I don't want my collegues to notices any difference in me. I don't have body aches but I'm confused, I'm queese and have lost my appetite. Meanwhile, my work is piling up and I can't take off. If I could just stay home, curled up on my sofa, I know I could do this. I want to do it to make my family proud of their mom. I don't know that I can....
I tell my family everything. They support me and love me and I KNOW that if I could stay home for two weeks I could do this. Please, tell me, if one suffers from depression, does the withdrawal worsen the depressive-state? This scares me more that the going through withdrawal.
That's hard to say. I was on Zoloft for 12 years and Effexor for the last 3. I've never felt overwhelmingly depressed but I've definitely felt a lot of discouragement over the last 60 days. I actually stopped taking my Effexor because I've been feeling better. There was some WD from the SSRI but I feel like I'm rounding the final bend.
I know that I was terrified of how I would feel and how I would act in withdrawal. I came out of rehab and was at a full-time desk job two days later. I just sat there and tried to stop sweating and tried to meditate in the bathroom. It's funny now but it wasn't then. The point is that it will get harder before it gets easier but it will get MUCH better. I was on benzos for 15 years, subs for 4, blah blah. Once you get through the clouds, the sun will be a lot brighter. Everything is better sober.
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Hi everyone,
5 days ago I was in bed completely convinced I was going die. I started an at home detox from 4mg suboxone. My story is the same as many of your I've read the past 5 days. I was just to sick to even type. I started my run 15 years ago with heroin, 3 years of hell. Then I was arrested and knew I didn't want to go back to jail so I took my sorry --- to the methadone clinic. I spent 4 years on 110mg of methadone. I detoxes methadone with.... Drum roll.... Suboxone. I have no idea how many of those nasty orange pills I had to suck on to match my 110mg methadone dose. I remember very little from that time period. Clearly Dr. Feel good had me so sedated I have no memory. But I was clean. Completely. (Sans marijuana, who cares about weed?) Fast forward 5 years.... January 21st, 2008. As a pro-athlete I injured my back pretty severely. On the same day my dearly beloved father-in-law passed away and I was given the gift of being the person who found his body. Being a good "ex-junky" that I was for 5 years my family doctor knew my past and would NOT ever prescribe me opiates. My back injury (3 ruptured discs) not herniated, but actualily opened and with out fluid. I went the my doctor and he wasn't there. The fill in doctor didn't give a second thought to filling my scripts for norco and a whole lot of them. By the time my actual doctor was back at the office I was waist deep in a norco habit. I've read many of these posts and there are some universal truths we have all found.
1) when you kick opiates and start again, you really do go right back to where you left off. 4 norco a day IS as hard to kick as heroin. True.
i kicked them on my own with sweat and grit and then went off the deep end and ended up having a affair (no doubt looking for some dopamine) and then divorced and it took just a few months to go back to my old ways. Because my back was so severely injured (yet Advil kills the pain just fine) doctors had no problem writing me scripts for as many norco as I could swallow, along with multiple muscle relaxers and Klonapin for my "anxiety" - ha ha. Benzos and opiates are like peanut butter and jelly.
It wasn't long before I was back to being a call girl, making 10k a month with 2 little kids and a bf that I love so much at home, all of them completely in the dark. I hid my habit very well. Eventually I (like we all do) started running out of pills to fast and even my new dumb --- doctor wouldn't fill my scripts was often as I needed them. I knew I had to kick. I went back to my "trusted doctor" handed him my bag full of pills and asked for help. He sent me home with clonadine and serequil (sp?) Talk about a devil drug! haves never been so paranoid in all my life, even after years of slamming coke. My "trusted doctor" set me up with an addiction medicine specialist and...... I went from a 0 a day norco habit ( I had already kicked them) to his 4mg of suboxone. I was assured it was a tiny dose and would not affect my life. I argued against it and explained the first time I had taken it to detox methadone, it made me puke every day. I loathed the drug and did not want to take it. The doctor sold it to me like a used car. "They've made improvements" "they come in strips form" "it's the only way for you to be normal again" " your brain is damaged" - sound familiar anyone?
my first 2 weeks on suboxone I was sick as dog all day every day. I couldn't drive, was nodding off in the car. It never dawned on me that I was sick because I was giving myself a habit, very similar to the first couple time you do heroin. Right? You puke, but who cares, you're too high to care. I look back and realize the doctor was giving me a habit. I stayed on his plan for 9 months. I spent 9 months puking every day. when I told him "no more" he gave me these stomach pills I later found out were for cancer patients about to die. The pills had the scariest side effects ever. Why? Because they were made for people who are going to die. So who cares if you go blind and get the twitches at 35 years old? Right? The doctor never told me this. I had to find out on my own. God bless the Internet.
after 9 months on suboxone I went in for my monthly refill and asked about detoxing. His answer "why would you want to?" I gave him 10 reasons and he shot each one down faster than I could up with more reasons. He said some things that opened my eyes that day. "Lots of babies are born on suboxone" "if you detox you'll end up on heroin" HEROIN? I had been clean for a decade from heroin! I knew hen I was just another $100 to this doctor. i was humiliated and pissed off. I went home and told my bf, now husband (thank you baby for sticking by me) and we started shaving the strips 1/10th at a time. I didn't even notice the drop. The way I dosed was 1/2 in the am, 1/4 in the afternoon and 1/4 before bed. I guess I was pretty gung ho about detoxing because I started skipping my afternoon dose. Seeing as how it's darn near impossible to measure mg of strips that are cut.... I can guess I was taking probably 1/2 mg daily when I made the jump. I wasn't feeling so bad. I was skipping doses. I thought, "this is easy, just stop". Great idea..... Smh. I looked on the all mighty net and saw that my 4mg of suboxone was equal to 60mg of methadone. I nearly died inside Wen I found out. A doctor took a girl who kicked norco and put me on 60 mg of methadone (2-4 mg suboxone). I was devastated and tried to explain to my husband that one can't cold turkey that high of a dose. I know, I had been there before. He was supportive. We kept shaving strips and I jumped off, like I said somewhere around .25 or.50 mg of suboxone.
day 1 - wasn't so bad. Sweaty, chills, nothing I didn't feel every day anyway.
day 2 - the wrath of hell hit me. I was certain I would die and if I didn't I wished I would. I luckily had a stocked medicine cabinet full of left over detox meds. Klonapin, clonadine, flexeril, Benadryl, and Advil too! I set about medicating myself to the point that I could not leave the bed to even pee. The pain was unbearable. Having kicked every opiate there is, I can tell you quite clearly suboxone was by far the worst.
Day 3 - still completely sedated, but certainly not SLEEPING, I was sure I would die. I have never been so dope sick in my life. But I knew that I had made it this far and it was time. My husband took my subs to work with him that day and I told him that night.... I'm in the woods now... Flush them. He didn't flush them. He gave my 25 strips to some junkies in an abandoned house he had inspected a few days prior. (He is a building inspector and was very bothered by a house he had gone to that week. No electricity, 15 people living in the dark, in utter filth. He dropped the subs off at their Door step said said "get some help".
Day 4 - if not for my husbands follow through this is the day I would have broken down. I have an 8 year old boy and 6 year old girl. I wasn't even able to pick my own body up and hug them. I told them I had a bad cold. They didn't buy it. For me day 4 was death day. Every single part of me hurt. I couldnt walk, talk, eat, sleep. I was reduced to a crying heap of ---- in the bed. At this point I started looking for ANYTHING that might help. I have little kids! I can't stay this way! I started in to researching and found L-tyrosine. In addition to raw colostrum ( if you can get it... It is not easy to find) I started pounding b12 like candy and plying myself with benedryl just to get an hour of sleep. I could drink a glass of colostrum mixed with milk and eat a banana and I was back in bed screaming and crying. That night my husband brought me L-tyrosine, melatonin, and ordered more colostrum from the dairy.
WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT? Colostrum mimics human growth Hormone (hgh) and L-tyrosine metabolizes into L-dopa (dopamine). We looked at lots of food and found so many that help or depleat dopamine, which is exactly what your body is screaming for. Oddly, bananas. I don't like them, but had been eating them anyway. Coconut water, protein of any kind. Eggs, I don't like those either, but I choked them down. I would have eaten my foot if I thought it would make me feel better. I tried walking. Wasn't going to happen. I was so fatigued And in so much pain. I lift 135lbs in a squat and I couldn't drag a box with 5 gallons of milk inside the house.
I've been here before and know all to well what makes dopamine. Exercise, food, sex. My husband was so incredibly helpful. He knew my body felt like my skin was burning off of my bones, yet his touch felt good. We later read that affection and touching stimulated dopamine as well. We weren't having sex on day 4, that was a given... But day 5 was approaching.
day 5 - now on a steady regimen of L-tyrosine, colostrum, melatonin, Klonapin, flexeril, Advil, and clonadine, my head was in a complete cloud. Still lacking any motivation to move at all. I have never felt so weak in all of my life. My skin was still on fire, twitches, depression... Full blown w/d. We went for a walk. Just around the block. It was so exhausting wheN I got home I fell asleep for 2 hours. As you all know 2 hours is golden when your kicking. I woke up and something had changed. I still had turkey skin, chills, fever, and some insane cramp in my stomach, but something gave. My husband made (seriously) forced me to eat eggs and pumpkin crepe. I did. We watched a little comedy (stimulated dopamine) and went to bed. Right before bed I took: L-tyrosine 1000mg, 4000mg melatonin, 2 mg Klonapin, Advil, and 75mg benedryl. We had sex. For about 4 minutes after sex I felt like a human again. Dopamine. I drifted off to sleep and woke up today! I got up out of bed, made my husband coffee and was able to kiss him good-bye as he walked out of the door on a Saturday to work overtime because I can't work. NO ONE CAN WORK TROUGH THIS KIND OF WITHDRAWL.
So here I am on day 6 - fever, chills, painful goose bumps, but I AM NOT GOING TO DIE! I got out of bed and though I won't be doing squats win 135lbs (I'm 5' 112lbs) I can certainly walk the dog around the block. I even had sex at 5:30 this morning... Imagine that?
I know I'm not out of the woods yet, but I see the clearing. I read post after post about "day 22" , day 30.... And so fourth. It scared me and made me lose hope. I am writing this today 1) because I can! And 2) to give hope to ANYONE who reads this thread and thinks they Ae in for a 30 day detox.
Of course we are all different. But I very strongly believe that a few changes and supplements got me this far. So, as I used "thomas' recipe" for suboxone detox... I have my own recipe for you.
1) if you are not able to get to a doctor go to an ER and get some CLONADINE. It helps. It sucks and we ALL hate how it makes us feel, but it has been used for detox forever, because it works.
2) get a hold of ANY benzo. The anxiety is what does you in.
3) L-tyrosine. I would have never believed it worked if I hadn't tried it.
4) smoke a little pot - IF IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU ANXIETY!
5) Dairy products, especially colostrum if you can get it from a local dairy that sells raw milk (organic pastures, in California)
6) Advil kills the muscle pain and flexeril will help stop that headache you're afraid of getting on day 3 of no sleep.
7) benedryl. Who knew that is what they put in tylenol pm?
8) sleep! Knock yourself out into a complete state of "I can not get up" " I can not move". Great! Then you can't pick up the phone to get your drugs!
9) find a sober person. ANYONE WHO HAS NEVER DETOXED AN OPIATE! They don't understand so they won't feed into your pain. You look normal to them, so they treat you normally. It DOES HELP.
10) lose your connection - or you will go back. You will.
11) coffee and chocolate do NOT stimulate dopamine. Protein, sex, laughter and L-tyrosine do.
12) be kind to your body. I am in competition shape, a fitness model, and I couldn't even lift my own leg. I can't imagine what it must be like for the average unhealthy junkie. You probably feel like you'll never move again.
13) cut back on detox MEDS to clear your foggy mind as soon as you can. You need to see where you are. Don't worry you still take them if you find you are still "that" sick.
Sleep away the first few days. Medicate! Start a very serious regimen of vitamins and supplements. Heck, even if you have to steal them. Do it! Just don't get caught. Find a sober anyone. And if you can get to a doctor get your benzos and CLONADINE. If you can't, go to an ER, they will give it to you. Maybe not the benzo, but you can always ask.
If you can't eat, drink ensure. Your body needs it. Dopamine is your own natural painkiller. You have been giving your brain dopamine through drugs, so it has stopped making its own. When you have NO NATURAL painkiller in your body, you finally know what it feels like to be alive. It hurts.
As soon as you possibly can start doing ANYTHING to get your brain to make dopamine for you. Walk, have sex, eat rich proteins, milk, milk, milk! I am a yoga teacher, so I will try today to do some (gentle) yoga. Anything to get your heart rate up. DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU STILL HAVE A HEAD FULL OF MEDS!!!!!!! Give a good 12 hours to clear out the CLONADINE and flexeril and then GET UP! even if you just fall back down! GET UP AGAIN!
PLEASE DON'T FEEL LIKE I DID WHEN I READ POST AFTER POST ABOUT MONTH LONG DETOXES!!!! I NEARLY GAVE UP READING THAT!!
I am not done detoxing yet. I'm cold, hot, turkey skin, muscles are aching and my stomach is ------. But I got out of bed and am sitting here drinking coffee and about to do the dishes even! On day 6!
There IS HOPE. This doesn't HAVE to be a 30 days in hell detox. Heal your brain.
***this post is edited by moderator *** *** private e-mails not allowed***Please read our Terms of Use
BE STRONG and BE ANGRY!!!! you have to want your life back and/or realize that you were no more Than a $100 bill once a month to your doctor. I've read it here over and over and totally agree.... Suboxone IS the devil's drug. And given the choice , I would kick pills over subs any day. The detox is horrid. But if you help your body... You can be back to work in a week + a weekend. I plan to go to the gym today. I won't be lifting any weight, but I will go do SOMETHING!
Get your brain working again! Dopamine! I realize you feel like having sex about as much as you feel like chewing glass, but even an affectionate touch releases dopamine. Find someone to hold you. Even when your skin is burning off of your bones. Get in the bath.
i can't foresee this lasting 22 days. Maybe some minor side effects, chills, depression, etc.... But the HELL does end, and not in 22 days. Email me.
Misty
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terey124 wrote:
terey124 wrote:
I've been on Sub since January. It helped me get rid of Oxycodone after spinal-fusion. Today is my third day without Sub. I just stopped suddenly on my own. I'm at work but I can't focus, and every task seems daunting. I don't want my collegues to notices any difference in me. I don't have body aches but I'm confused, I'm queese and have lost my appetite. Meanwhile, my work is piling up and I can't take off. If I could just stay home, curled up on my sofa, I know I could do this. I want to do it to make my family proud of their mom. I don't know that I can....
I tell my family everything. They support me and love me and I KNOW that if I could stay home for two weeks I could do this. Please, tell me, if one suffers from depression, does the withdrawal worsen the depressive-state? This scares me more that the going through withdrawal.
That's hard to say. I was on Zoloft for 12 years and Effexor for the last 3. I've never felt overwhelmingly depressed but I've definitely felt a lot of discouragement over the last 60 days. I actually stopped taking my Effexor because I've been feeling better. There was some WD from the SSRI but I feel like I'm rounding the final bend.
I know that I was terrified of how I would feel and how I would act in withdrawal. I came out of rehab and was at a full-time desk job two days later. I just sat there and tried to stop sweating and tried to meditate in the bathroom. It's funny now but it wasn't then. The point is that it will get harder before it gets easier but it will get MUCH better. I was on benzos for 15 years, subs for 4, blah blah. Once you get through the clouds, the sun will be a lot brighter. Everything is better sober.
I have been reading some post and some of this sh*t scared me to death. Now my experience, I had been on suboxone and subutex for over five years, I stopped Mon. and wed felt like I was going to die, Thur. I had to take a physical for a great job offer it required a lot of physical test the whole nine yards and I did everything except my breathing test because they could tell I was conjested. I got through it. I went to the gym that evening and yesterday I went and worked out hard I felt great until bedtime my arms felt like they were coming out of my skin,should have stuck to cardio. So make yourself exercize #1. #2 take all the stuff the guy above has said he is very correct in what he has said, #3 eat eat eat eat. whatever this will help even the dope junky that has went through withdrawl many times over will say eat. #4 Drink Drink Drink Drink water, gatorade, and protien. #4 suround yourself with supportive people that have done this, I am a hard headed dude but it some how helps make a meeting and I am not about NA. What I have learned most is never stay on this sh*t very long I was told the same thing some of you were that I might have to be on it for many years and I was. These Dr.'s are misinformed in ways some just want your money each month. The end is Freedom we have a chance for freedom. Sounds like a bunch of sh*t but it is true. I am big believer in God and if you ask him and take him as your savior he can do ammazing things. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13
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God is great and I am a believer so I agree I am night 8 and I just worked out harder than I have jn a while. Dont let some of this stuff you read stop you. I read some stuff from a girl and she and I were pretty close she said have sex it gets your endorphens going, it realy does help if you are able to safely....LOL.. Remember your mind can f you up if you let it. God Bless
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