Kidney Stone Info/Tricks from a guy who's passed more than 200!
269 answers - active on Feb 19th 2022
I looked through some of these posts and I see that a lot of people have kidney stone issues and have been, or are going through many of the situatios that I have. I have become a sefl-taught expert on kidney stones since I have passed over 200 in my lifetime. I have a congenital kidney disease called Medullary Sponge Kidney Disease and it causes me to make stones like most people grow fingernails.
When you pass that many stones, you get to know your body and tricks to make things less painful so I thought I'd come and tell of some experiences that might help others. In addition to passing more than 200, I've also been through 7 Lythotrypsies so I know all that as well.
I passed my first stone when I was 20. Typical severe pain in my left flank area, like a knife pushed deep and twisting. That lasted several hours and landed me in the E.R. It took me 3 weeks to pass that stone but I finally did. The pain is typically the most instense pain a man will ever go through. The way I know it's a stone is that no amount of re-positioning makes that pain better. It stays the same incredible intensity throughout the experience. For those who are not familiar with stones, the pain is caused when the stone is pushed down the ureters on the way to the bladded. Generally, you will pass a lot of blood the first few times this happens. Not usually bright red blood but very dark rust colored. I actually passed blood the day before the pain. Didn't know, at that time, what was going on but learned quick.
Over the years, I have so much scar tissue built up inside my ureters that I no longer pass any visible blood and seldom feel the stone passing down the ureters. I have even passed 8mm stones and never knew which side it came down because it didn't hurt. But that was after the first 50 or so.
I also know WHERE in the ureter the stone is by the type and location of pain. I know a stone is right near the opening to the bladder because I get this very regular spasm, about every second or so, but the pain is felt in the tip of the penis, as if the stone is actually stuck about 1/2 inch inside the urethra. But higher up the ureter the stone is, the deeper I feel the pain in my penis, ie: If the stone is 1" from the bladder, that spasming is about 1 & 1/2 inches from the tip of my penis. This is when I know I have to push a ton of water.
I generally know when the stone passes into the bladder as I get one more very intense sharp spasm... the kind that make you scream "OUCH"! Then I get ready for the next step... passing it through my penis. This is less painful than it sounds but always shocks the sh!t out of me, excuse my french. It almost always goes like this... I start peeing, and right near the end I feel the stone hit the exit of the bladder. I generally don't get the stone out then. Often it literally gets stuck in my urethra which is really painful and is noted by a sharp pain in that area when bending forward. Then I do this trick... I drink lots of water, wait until my bladder is really full and hit the bathroom. I then hold the very tip of my penis tightly so that no pee can come out. I release the stream, causing my urethra to expand (like in the cartoons when someone plugs a fire hose and a big bubble grows near the end), then I release my grip. This cause a huge, fast stream and generally pushes the trapped stone out. Often, I have to keep squeezing off the penis, over and over again while trying to keep urinating, eventually, I pass the stone. In cases where the stone is particularily large or difficult, I will fill the tub with very warm water, get in and get down on all fours, reaching back to perform the same squeezing technique. This allows you to pee underwater and point the penis straight down, an aid to getting it out of the lowest point in the bladder. Yes, I end up sitting in a bathtub full of water (and my own pee) but it works. I find a huge stone in the bottom of the tub. Then I simply shower.
Because I form stones so fast, they are generally very jagged, like quartz crystals with spikes on the ends. Stones that spend years froming are generally more round and easier to pass. But often, my stones don't show up on xray because they from so fast, they are not dense and therefore, not radio-opaque. This oftens causes me issues as new doctors think I'm faking a stone.
Another trick I use is when I have a stone stuck in my ureter for weeks or months. I go to the E.R. and have them hook me up to a normal sailine I.V. and push it wide open. This moves so much fluid through my kidneys that the stone often moves to the bladder with 2 hours. But this is not recommended for men over 50 as having that much fluid in your boday can cause a heart attack. Basically, you are simulating Congestive Heart Failure by having so much fluid going through your bloodstream. I haven't done the IV thing since I turned 50.
As to what causes my stones, they are almost always calcium-oxylate, the typical type. Drinking colas is the number one way people get these stones. But eating nuts is also not a good idea. Many people say coffee is bad (tea is very high in oxylates) but I actually drink only coffee for the past 5 years and have greatly reduced my stone issues. I do drink lots of coffee and some water too so I think the hydration alone is what's working. I spent 2 years drinking 2 bears a day... never created a stone in 2 years. But I couldn't keep my beer gut from forming. Beer is a great diuretic.
I also try to take a Flomax when I know I'm about to pass a stone. Makes it easier to release the prostate and get flow going.
These are just some of the things I've learned over the years. I hope they help someone. I came here today because I feel like I passed a stone into my bladder but have not been able to flush it out. And at least half the times I go to pee, there is nothing, no pain, no stone trying to exit the bladder near the end. This is very unusual for me. And it happened the same last month... felt I passed a stone but never did. So either I have one stuck in the bladder (which BTW happens often... the bladder is not smooth on the inside, it has lots of folds and crevices that like to hold onto stones) or I am experiencing prostate stones for the first time. I came here looking for symptoms of those as they are new to me.
Good luck to all. Drink lots of water!
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I have a stone, said to be 3mm. This is my first and very scared. This is the 2nd time I'm sent home to try and pass it. How much water should I drink and how often? What else can I do to push it out? Last week on Thursday I was told it was just above my bladder.
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How did you make out? I found out Monday, i have a 4mm stone in my kidney. I was hurled over peeing blood, which sent me to the ER. Today is Wed, it still has not passed
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Hi you said lemon juice just pure lemon juice or with water mixed
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Hope you passed it by now. The problem I have encountered is that some stones have been
very irregular in shape, some looked like quartz crystals and just as sharp. Last one I passed was only 3.5mm, but shaped like a pyramid with jagged edges. Taking pain killers (Cocodamine) hurts my liver too much, so I take nothing.
I have found apple juice and pineapple juice to help pass stones less painfully and camomile tea to help urinate more.
Another issue I have had is that after 12 sessions of ESWL (6 per kidney) I have effectively been left with masses of small fragments which eventually form into stones. Since having the treatment 3 years ago, I have passed dozens of stones. Just trying to pass two now.
Stones at the bottom of the kidney find it harder to come out than those in the upper part. If any of you are considering ESWL, I would advice asking many questions.
In all honesty, I wish I hadn't opted for the option that caused so many fragments that turned into stones.
No one explained anything to me, advising instead that this was a non invasive pain-free treatment. They lied, it hurt like hell and made me urinate pure blood.
Chanca Piedra is actually helpful in stopping the crystals from binding together and making stones form, as is citric acid. Nothing but ESWL will break a calcium stone, regardless of what is written on some forums.
One really good tip is to make sure your urine is as clear as possible, deep yellow indicates a high concentration of minerals. These will eventually bind and cause the stone to form and grow continually.
If you know the stone to be less than 5mm, drink a few glasses of water then lay on the stairs with your upper body lower than the legs. I also gently "percuss" the side the stone is on. Do this for 10mins every day.
Stones adhere to the kidney walls or sit in cavities, so far exercises like twists and sit ups have worked in dislodging small stones for me.
If the stone is bigger than 5mm, it might be better not trying to dislodge it. It will possibly end getting stuck somewhere and making a bad situation much worse.
Good luck to all, kidney stones really are awful.
Just to give everyone some positive news, just passed a 5.5mm stone an hour ago. So, some hope to all that have similar size stones. Again, pain is dependant on the shape of the stone.
3 years after ESWL, this latest stone seems to be a mix of broken bits which have stuck together. Pineapple juice most definitely helped smooth passage. It has taken 3 weeks to pass this stone, seems like an eternity!
My attacks always begin with an upset stomach and diarrhoea, doctors tell me the two are not connected. After dozens of stones, I am positive the two are.
So, for all those with 3mm,4mm,5mm stones, be positive and stay strong. Your body should be able to pass at least up to those sizes without medical intervention and extra strong pain medication. Greater sizes would probably best be investigated by doctors.
You don’t know how helpful this was for me, I’m going through my second one and it was even more painful than my first . I wish dr.s would pay more attention to what you say. I’ve been shot with a .45 caliber bullet and I still would take that over kidney stone pain any day
Hi There.., I’ve had 5 or 6 bouts with kidney stones and have had several procedures to get rid of them and have also passed some on my own. And,., Presently I have been told I’m loaded with them, I just this past week passed a 9.5mm stone (yes really, almost a full centimeter) followed by a 7.5 mm 2 hrs later. Jagged edges and all. I had been struck awake in the middle of the night with the “all to familiar” pain 3 days earlier. After toughing it out on my own (only ibuprofen) and gallons of water I sought out my urologist on the 4th day feeling it wasnt going to pass on its own. He gave me Rapaflo capsules, took a urine test, an ex ray & ordered a ultrasound. Surprisingly,. even before I got to the the ultrasound the next day, I passed both stones. He was amazed I had passed them being do large, & I have no idea how either other than the addition of the Rapaflo (&water) finally moved them. It was excruciating the first few days but I wanted to rid them on my own if possible. I still have more to psss.. so I’m on a daily dose of the Rapaflo & a 80+ oz water protocol. Additionally I had no infection, which the Dr was stunned at and I contribute that to a daily supplement I take of Mannose D. Having been prone to constant UTI’s as well, I sought out a natural solution after taking back to back antibiotics for an infection., which didn’t help me. I’ve been on the mannose D for almost a year now, without a UTI, plus it got rid of the original infection I had when I started them (while antibiotics did not). So I swear by my mannose D now. I’m sure it does little to prevent stones but it offsets the secondary infection that often accompanies stones.
All in all there’s no magic bullet but I do think the Rapaflo has helped me tremendously & the amount of water you ingest if crucial! Add in the mannose to offset infection. For all of you with large stones, it can be done, it’s a personal decision if you can handle the pain & time. Good Luck... it’s a bitch ... but there are worse health issues we could have.
Passing a 9.5mm stone must be quite rare, at least it saved a round of soundwave treatment and endless passing of fragments.
My urologist has not tested me once for infections, all he ever says is "drink water". I could write it on a sticky note on my fridge and save myself the 4hr queue waiting to see him.
I have just told the hospital I shall no longer be returning, pointless as they do nothing but wait to break large stones up. I have not heard about mannose D, shall have to read up on it.
My urologist seems happier for me to be an eternal customer than to give me some real advice. I have so far "shaken" nearly ten stones out by myself, seems others have too. Why are doctors not prescribing, or designing, some sort of specialized exercise routine?
How often do you do the 2 oz of lemon juice with the 2oz of virgin olive oil?
So far no one has properly explained what the concoction is meant to do, not sure whether the oil would mix with the urine to facilitate passage of stones. Citric acid is meant to stop the crystals binding and in turn causing stones to form. In itself it will not break up a stone, believe me, I have drunk gallons trying to break a stone up.
Pineapple juice for some reason helps the stone to come out more easily, but this is only once it has already been expelled from the kidney and is making its way out. Or is stuck somewhere.
What helps is drinking loads of water and exercises to dislodge them from the kidney, then loads of water and hot baths to help them move out. Unfortunately, it can take days or weeks and can be very painful. During kidney stone attacks drinking is hard, but it needs to be done. last time I was taken to A&E I was so dehydrated they had to drip feed me, this was after a three days and night attack of 7 stones.
I still think it's important to know the stone's size, big ones that can't come out on their own should not be "shaken" out.
On a more positive note. When I passed my first stone I had to flag a car down to take me to A&E, (this was London in the 80s doubtful anyone would stop now) the pain was so intense. As the stones got more regular, the pain became more familiar and bearable with hot baths.
If any of you are passing a stone and it feels stuck, go to your GP and get some Flomax. I keep things natural until I can no longer bear it and hit the Flomax. This is a muscle relaxant which will allow the stone to move more easily, it also stops some of the spasms caused by the pain.
Keep strong and look after yourselves, doctors are only of limited help. Kidney stones are a personal battle, unfortunately.
I've some question about "suddenly" passing more stones. Can drinking 2.5L of fluid/day (water, light tea) really "flush" existing stones? I'm not far from the original poster in number of stones (I must be in the 80 to 100)
I'm a male, in my mid 40s, passing stones for 10 years now. Had my 3rd holmium laser lithotripsy roughly 3 weeks ago, with stent removal 5 days after the surgery. Dr blasted a 7mm stone that was stuck in the ureter, as well as all stones he could find in the kidney. (that was the left one). I've been taking Flomax daily since the surgery. I've also been on Potassium Citrate (10 meq twice a day) for a couple of years, but still make more stones.
I mostly do Ca Oxalate stones, and create them on both sides. CT Scans show them well, but usually X-Ray doesn't seem them well.
I passed more than 30 stones from 1 to 4mm in the past 2 weeks. a record for me. Up to 5 at a time (I always strain when I pass stones). 9 a day has been my max. Now I understand the Dr went in and fractured as many stones as he could get, so it's normal to pass the fragments. The pain has been "reasonable" for the past 10 days. I feel the pain, then a few hours later pass the stones while urinating. [if there's a way to attach a picture, let me know, I've the recent stones in a specimen cup and wouldn't mind attaching the picture]
I've been using an App "My water" on iOS to track and force me to really drink enough. So I think I moved from about 1.75l per day to 2.5l per day. About 84 fluid ounces.
The weird thing is that I'm now starting to pass stones from the right side. So I wonder if drinking a lot more than before can really trigger passing existing stones?
So far I found that gardening would trigger me passing some of my stones (I've some garden bed hard to access, so I'm heavily bent forward, stretching...). i.e. spend a few hours gardening followed by the pain followed by some stone passing within a few days.
But right now I've not been very active, (I work in an office, nothing physical), and I wonder if this is just "chance", or if increasing my water intake more than I did in the past is really changing things. I do NOT mind at all passing more stones. I want them out rather than in, and would rather see them out at less than 5mm where I know I can pass them rather than 6 or 7mm where they get stuck (for me).
Notes for anyone new with stones:
- it gets easier over time. Not sure if this is related to scars in the ureter, if they get ore stretchy or not, but the pain my first 2mm stone caused would happen only with a 5+ mm stone now. The first one is terrifying mentally I think.
- I tried most "remedies", the live oil, lemon, asparagus and coca cola, whatever. Paying $30 to some scam web site is nothing compared to the pain. Overall, that did nothing. Now IF you make uric acid stones, allopurinol (the prescription drug) will dissolve them. That's about it.
- I highly encourage you to read articles from Dr Fredric Coe from university of Chicago. He has some great series on super saturation, what that means... And tons of (free) info on kidney stones. That guy co-wrote hundreds of research papers, so he seem very solid. Understanding deeply how stones do form is a big help. That was the motivating factor for me to get an app and get serious really counting every drink of the day.
- whenever you can prove you are passing a stone (X-Ray or worst case CT-Scan - I say worst case as the images are great, but the amount of radiation from many CT-Scans is really not good), you get proper pain relief from the emergency rooms. Otherwise they have to deal with some many drug addicts faking it that you will get very little empathy. After all, you won't die from the kidney stone pain, even if it can be unbearable to you. So if you can, come with your previous X-Ray, Dr diagnostic... anything like that to show them you are not faking it. - if you are like me and the worst (not passing) stones make you puke/vomit a lot, ondansetron - the type that is taken under the tongue, nothing to swallow - can work. Ask your doctor.
- if you get a stent, you will likely be in one of the following 3 categories. a) you cannot tolerate it and your Dr will remove it (or you will). b) it's super painful but you can tolerate it for a few days with pain medication. c) it is very painful, but you can deal with it. When it's needed, it's needed. But if your Dr tells you it's not painful, get another dr. You want to be able to trust him/her. For me each time, it was super painful when peeing. Basically you drink a lot, want to go to the toilet, as soon as you see the toilet seat, your brain sends some signal to the bladder "start contracting, we will pee soon". When that happens, the bladder starts to contract, and the urine pressure increases and is pushed through the stent directly to the kidney, creating that familiar terrible pain until you start the flow of urine for a few seconds and reduce the pressure. The trick is to fool your body/brain. i.e. go from not seeing the bathroom to sitting on the seat, having your pants on the floor and peeing into your strainer. Do that as fast as possible - without pulling on the stent threads that come out of the tip of the penis. (I'm a guy, I assume the threads are out for women too).
Last tip for stents is about the removal. It's a "2 percocet" procedure. Drink enough water before doing it, and if you DIY, be steady, do not stop pulling. I did it twice myself, once by the doctor. Hurts the same. Get the Dr to do it first time, as mentally it's really scary. The pain is sharp when it comes out but short lived. But then 30 minutes later... at least for me it's when the pain gets worst. Best news is you don't have the same pain before peeing, as there's no more "2 way" fluid passage through the ureter. It's back to "1 way".
- pain wise, the pain is different for each person. Try to recognize what pain = what stone position. For instance, stones stuck between the bladder and end of the penis result in feeling that someone kicked me in the testicles (one or both). Same tips as others on that thread for that: drink a lot, try to hold the urine and build-up pressure, then let it go. (do strain). It usually comes at the end of the urine flow for some reason.
- ESWL vs. laser lithotripsy. It seems there are less long term damages to the kidney from the laser version. Something to consider, assuming you get a surgeon who is really good at it (does a lot every week). Ask the surgeon beforehand if you want him/her to go blast the one in the kidney or only the one creating problems.
- I do some urine retention (cannot pee) after the lithotripsy procedure. So now (3rd time), I asked the surgeon before the procedure to get a "Foley" and leave it there for many hours after the procedure. That way I avoided the crazy back pressure on the kidney after the surgery. That was the worst pain ever for me in the past. i.e. IV pushing tons of fluid, bladder ready to explode, and stent to let all that pressure on the kidney just after the surgery, with no Dr around to prescribe a Foley or to prescribe some IV pain killer. I'm respectful of others, but was screaming and begging for mercy that time. Not my finest hour. So plan in advance for the worst, and you should have a "good" post-procedure situation. Make sure you can pee on your own... before being discharged from the hospital, and have someone to be your advocate. (family or friend). Coming from general anesthesia, you won't be able to make any rational decision on your own.
- for fun on netflix, look for "jeff foxworthy and larry the cable guy" show. Around minutes 25, the comic guy has a 10 minutes talk about kidney stones. This is the real deal...
Good luck for anyone passing stones: you are not the only one, and I think nobody "normal" would wish that on their worst enemy. It does eventually pass.
To the guy with 200 stones.... I'm a women and it's my first one... and drinking without peeing and still drinking with a full bladder made mine shoot down and come out 20 min after reading what u said to do. I've been having trouble for over a month getting it out. Thank u so much
Have you checked for the hyperparathyroid problem? My sister just told me about that - maybe you have that??
I’m afraid that this can’t possibly work. The oil and juice hit the digestive system and are...well... digested.
Cause they wouldn’t have a job anymore with information like this lol