Seborrheic Dermatitis: Mustache, Beard, and Scalp
56 answers - active on Dec 23rd 2021
SEBORRHEIC DERMATITIS: MUSTACHE, BEARD, AND SCALP AREA.
As a General Practice Physician, who has suffered with this same condition discussed in this forum for over 20 years, I have decided to respond with a long post. I shall attempt to tell you more than you care to know about this nagging condition, in hopes that you may find peace and solice from this troubling, tormenting, time-consuming, financially-draining, and self-defeating disease.
If I help one person to take control of this condition, it was worth my time.
The vast majority of the posts I have read, seem to suffer from CLASSIC: Seborrheic Dermatitis (As I have for years). And, some of you may have a mild component of "Rosacea" (a redness disorder, extreme sensitivity to any facial product, sunlight, and possibly foods), or "Psoriasis" (a cell-turnover disorder or "skin shedding disorder") mixed-in with your "Seb Derm".
In this post, I will attempt to tell you: 1) the basic CLASSIC MEDICAL APPROACH to treatment of this Seb Derm; and 2) methods that may not be completely conventional, but are based on MEDICAL SCIENCE and have been shown to work in many cases.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND, THAT THE SKIN IS A UNIQUE ENTITY. NO TWO SKIN CONDITIONS ARE THE SAME. This is largely because of genetic factors, skin type, ethnicity, climate, and even your state of "hydration" can affect your skin. SO, WHAT WORKS FOR ONE PERSON, MAY NOT WORK FOR YOU. TREATING SKIN CONDITIONS IS LARGELY TRIAL AND ERROR.
With Seborrheic Dermatitis, A.K.A. "Seborrhea", A.K.A. "Dandruff" in common terms (A.K.A. "Cradle Cap" in Babies) one will have: 1) crusting/flaking in any of these areas: mustache, beard, or scalp. 2) itching; 3) redness. There may also occasionally be a "greasy" clearish-yellow, oily "ooze" from these areas, during a severe flare-up (this is "sebum", flowing from the inflamed sebum glands).
As a physician, I can tell you that [medical school teaches] that this is caused by a yeast called Malassezia furfur, formerly known as Pityrosporum ovale, on the skin surface, which over a period of days overgrows leading to an ARMY of yeast on the skin surface. These yeast release mycolic acids on the skin, which are very irritating to it. This also alters skin pH.
You then..... S C R A T C H like a mangy dog! You rub BACTERIA + YEAST into your broken skin, further irritating it.
It does not appreciate this!
It gets MAD! The fact that you just mowed the lawn, and sweat like a water buffalo also helps the yeast to grow, as they love the warm humid environment.
Now. Something that med school DID NOT and still to my knowledge DOES NOT [YET] teach, but [MOST] Dermatologists, and other Physicians accept as another important contributing factor to "Seb Derm" can be [get ready, I hope you are sitting down], face mites.
Now, these are primarily associated with Rosacea, not seb derm. However, there is becoming more evidence to show that there is more overlap between these two diseases. These "FACE MITES" are actual little bugs, also known as "eyelash mites", that live down in the base of the hair follice, inside the Sebum gland. The more scientific name of this mite is called Demodex folliculorum. In dogs, a variant similar to this is what causes "Red Mange". If you would like to see a picture of these mites just google them.
Now that I have you totally scared to death: Realize this- EVERYONE has these mites normally- to some degree. These live on everyone. However, those with Rosacea, and [probably] seb derm as well, have MASSIVE AMOUNTS of these mites on their faces and skin surface. These mites, both male and female, only come out at night, while you are sleeping, they breed, and then crawl back into their hole, which is: the Sebum Gland. All these mites living in your sebum gland help keep it inflamed and irritated, and encourage it to pour out sebum. (theoretically). This thick oily sebum, is then "Thanksgiving Dinner" for the YEAST!
So, the COMBINATION: 1) YEAST; + 2) FACE MITES; and 3) NORMAL FACE BACTERIA; (particularly Staph), tends to keep your face in a Royal Mess!
It is speculated that the reason one person gets seb derm, but another person does NOT get seb derm, is because of TWO FACTORS:
1) GENETICS- Seb Derm itself, is not inherited; however, the tendency to GET Seb derm IS inherited. What one actually inherits, is an INABILITY of the immune system to [for some reason] fight off either the fungus, or the face mites, or both ==> ultimately allowing fungal overgrowth and redness and itching.
2) IMMUNE SYSTEM VULNERABILITES- If you have had Seb Derm since, let's say, High School, you most likely have the genetic type. If however, you are well into adulthood, and suddenly develop Seb Derm for the first time ever, and have never had any "dandruff" type problems before- you should probably ask your doctor to do some blood work to check your immune system- as SEB DERM can be the FIRST SIGN of other more serious IMMUNE DISORDERS. (Don't panic here folks, just ask them and get it checked) (all of the ones I am talking about are very treatable).
GENERAL TIPS:
1. Realize that this disease requires DAILY DISCIPLINE/MAINTENANCE/PAMPERING OF YOUR SKIN, or it will get worse.
2. Depression and Anxiety will worsen this disorder. (they cause an elevation of cortisol, which the yeast thrive on!). So get any emotional problems treated by a professional, if you are depressed or anxious- this should help your skin!
3. You must have meticulous hygiene, and you can no longer be "the lazy cave man, who says "oh I'll shave tomorrow....next week".
4. Take charge, and this thing cannot control your life.
5. Read everything you can get your hands on, and educate yourselves about the 3 conditions I have discussed, from CREDIBLE sources. BE SURE they are CREDIBLE sources folks. Some might be, ***edited by moderator*** web addresses not allowed, etc.
Go to your local library if necessary. Print up articles. File them. Become your own expert.
6. Go to a Good Dermatologist who will spend time with you, or even a family doctor if they are willing to work with you and spend time with you and listen to you. A good doctor is not always the one with the most qualifications, but the one with the investigative wit, tenacity, and interest in your case. If you are not happy- MOVE ON TO ANOTHER DOCTOR.
7. You may want to bring articles of interest (i.e., pictures of the face mites) to your doctor for discussion for emphasis. (these mites are actually NEW in medicine, and many doctors are unaware of them).
8. Don't be afraid of making your doctor mad, or of getting another doctor, if he is not willing to hear what you have to say and try to seek out the best treatment. THIS IS NOT A POPULARITY CONTEST. YOUR HEALTH COMES FIRST.
9. Consider asking your doc to test you for: 1) immune deficiencies, and 2) Auto-immune disorders (i.e., Lupus, etc.)
10. INSIST on a "Demodex Scraping" if you are at a dermatologist who is familiar with them, and/or does them. (they will look at a scraping under the microscope for the face mites). (you can just ask the derm's nurse if they ever do demodex scrapings, she'll know)
11. INSIST on a SCRAPING of the RASH for YEAST CULTURES, BACTERIAL CULTURES, and HISTOLOGY. Tell them you want to know a "Laboratory Confirmed Diagnosis", not just a "Clinical Diagnosis". (the fungal cultures will take weeks to get back, but it's worth it- mark your calendar, and CALL THEM to follow up, don't expect them to call you, nowadays, medical mishaps happen way too often).
12. Once 9, 10, 11, is done- a more concrete diagnosis can be reached, things can be excluded, and treatment can be guided to your specific situation.
13. Steroid Creams will usually get your condition under control fast. The tradeoff: they will cause THINNING of the skin over time and can cause "red blood vessels" to become visible on your face. (this is part of Rosacea, called telengectasias). Steroids can also cause "rebound" or withdrawal flareups.
Do do I use steroid cream? Yes. There is a place for them in my opinion. But they should be used sparingly. I use a weak steroid ointment- for mild flares, or 1% hydrocortisone for more troublesome flares. However, if one maintains GOOD HYGIENE, and GOOD SKIN CARE, you will find it is very rare that he requires topical steroids. Even then, I would probably only use it when I needed a quick fix (i.e., such as social event coming up). Also, be very careful of the STRENGTH of steroid cream you put on your face- make sure it is one for the face. Using too potent a cream can thin the skin.
I intended to go more into the specific medications, but it is late at night, and I'm tired, so I will just tell JUST A FEW of my favorite meds (and some OTHER TIPS) and you can ask your docs about them. Here goes:
PRESCRIPTION ONLY:
Nizoral Cream (Ketoconazole Cream 2%) - Still one of the best Antifungal Creams- works great to kill the specific yeast we discussed.
Nizoral Shampoo (Ketoconazole Shampoo 2%)
Permethrin Cream - great to kill the demodex face mites. (also kills scabies, lice, etc); good for those with pustules/acne;
Metrogel- an antifungal and antibiotic; reduces the demodex mite population on the skin.
Triamcinolone Ointment 0.1% - is a very weak steroid for the face; yet is very moisturizing; can be put on at night.
Hydrocortisone Cream 1% - or other steroid creams (there are many) for flairs.
RECOMMENDED OVER-THE-COUNTER FACIAL PRODUCTS:
Aveeno Positively Radiant Cleanser (or Pads)- The best, non-irritating facial cleanser- with nutrients, I have found; Buy at Walmart.
Shaving Cream: Nivea For Men, Sensitive Shaving Gel, Alcohol-Free (white/blue can) ; Wal-Mart
Nivea For Men, Sensitive Lotion; (apply within 2 minutes of shaving) (always keep face clean and moisturized) ("baby your skin")
BEST RAZOR:
Panasonic ES-LA93-K Vortex Men's Shaver- $192.26 at Amazon; I recommend switching to a VERY GOOD electric razor. This one is expensive, but worth it. It is also excellent for scalp shaving.
FOR SHAVING ON THE GO:
Braun M90 Mobile Shaver, $19.62 at Amazon, Great way to shave on the go, if you are a busy person.
(Note: I would recommend waiting until your face is doing well to switch razors, as to not further irritate it)
GENERAL TIPS: Maintaining good hydration and fluid balance (i.e., drinking water) is important for skin health. Maintain Good Nutrition, generally, I recommend a multi-vitamin, b-complex, and fish oil. (that's about it) (don't over do it on the supplements) (there are tons of claims out there, and I have yet to find any that work).
15-20 min. SUNLIGHT: HELPFUL for Seb Derm, but usually aggravates rosacea. You may have to experiment and see what works for you.
HOT WATER: DEFINITELY aggravates Rosacea; and to a lesser degree, Seb Derm. (best to use cool or tap water on face)
FOODS: Rosacea- often worsened by hot food, hot tea/coffee/beverages; Liquor; spicey foods such as jalapeno peppers, etc.; experiment!
NOTE: No Rubbing alcohol on face. Ever. This is known to provoke Rosacea.
VERY IMPORTANT: RULE OF THUMB IN REGARDS TO FACE PRODUCTS: IF IT BURNS WHEN YOU PUT IT ON YOUR FACE, DO NOT USE THE PRODUCT.
DO NOT USE SOAP ON THE FACE, ETC. - BABY YOUR FACE. USE THE CORRECT REGIMEN, ALL THE TIME, EVERYTIME.
GOOD LUCK GUYS,
Stewie, M.D.
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The best product that works for my seb derm is aveeno anti itch , the little purple ointment, it s very effective goodluck.
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Hi,
I had some small patches of seb derm in my mustache but enough to be a nuisance, for the last 5 years or so. Would just like to share something that worked for me: alcohol free clarifying skin toner after washing face, once per day. Women usually use the stuff to prime the skin before applying a moisturizing cream, to allow the pores to contract or whatever. Well women know skin and I thought I'd give it a try and fortunately it has really made a difference.
Good luck!
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Wow this was so informative! Bless ur soul for kindly sharing! Ty
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LilI am a female and (sadly) I too have found that shaving the dead skin off of my face daily is mandatory. It does not make it better...but helps it from getting worse. Cerave is great.
What if you have a very large beard? Do I have to shave to treat it?
Thank you very much the information you gave was more than helpful. Im seeing results already.
Hi, Stewie, thanks a lot for your post, it has sorted out a couple of things in my head, so I kind of know which direction to head in. I never have suffered from dandruff but have oily scalp which does get itchy. I went through my 30s with a beard no problem, but since I turned 40 I started getting these soars under my beard that seemed to explode with an oily goo just like you explained. I also started to get things like conjunctivitis in my eyes on a fairly regular basis, I thought it was because of close proximity with my 2 dogs. I have managed to get rid of the conjunctivitis but still get crusty eyes after a sleep which only use to happen as a child. I shave and I'm left with these red blotches here and there and still get the ooze but it does seem to go if I shave regular. As a man I like to take a break from the razor and just go Rambo for a few days but even a thick stubble will bring back the sores just as you've described.
Thank you for taking time to write this , I wish my doctor had some patience, I dread even asking him but I will or I'll kick him to the curb and get a new one! I am going to try the creams you've mentioned and shampoos, I just wish I could get rid of these damn mites and at least grow a goatee!
I've had this problem for over a decade, it arrived when I was 18. It's gotten severely worse this year, and your advice and information looks incredibly helpful, I'm going to pick up the hydrocortisone and Aveeno creams tomorrow. I suffer from BPD and severe anxiety and depression, all three of which have been at their worst this year. Knowing the probable cause of the increased problems is helpful to me. Thanks so much for this post, you are a hero.
I think i might have this condition too, but incase you want to try something out to grow a beard, I would recommend using baby oil/ almond oil before showers. Shampoo with a herbal/ayurvedic shampoo (Patanjali) and then lightly dab a drop of baby oil on your palm and spread it over the effected areas.
My skin has been as good as new and it doesnt require and special products.
Could this be caused by an allergy to Fluoride?
Try Dead Sea salt, wash your face with hot water, then wash your face with hot water containing plenty of the Dead Sea salt, results are instant
I have had this condition for a good number of years. I was diagnosed with chronic migraines very young and took a variety of medications through the years to treat headaches. My last Doctor suggested trying something for the headaches that no other Doctor (including specialists) had ever suggested. She told me that she had been reading about sinus issues, which I also had reported but never bothered having treated, having a possible link or acting as a trigger for some of my headaches and suggested I try a medication containing Loratadine. I did and it seemed that my migraine frequency dropped significantly; so, I have been taking it ever since. It was not too long after this that I began having skin issues, but in the beginning I did not think to connect the cause-effect; and it was also minor. However, several years ago I began working in an office where two others suffered similar skin issues, and after some time and talking with them I noted that they also both daily or nearly so took Loratadine containing medications and acetaminophen. Again, my skin issues were minor and hidden so I did not feel compelled to change anything.
In the last two years or so my skin problems have worsened; large red blotches after I shave very visible, flaking near my temples at the hair line and also on top of my head and along the hair line in the back. This winter when the sinus issues are lessened, I intend to break my daily Loratadine use to see if it helps with my skin. We'll see, I WILL report back if I notice improvement. In addition to Loratadine, I have wondered about some supplements that I have taken daily for some time. I take and use no other medications daily or otherwise.
So in the interest of information gathering, I wanted to ask folks suffering the same issues; do any of you regularly use any or all of:
1) Sinus meds, especially containing Loratadine?
2) Acetaminophen?
3) Omega 3 supplements especially Fish oils?
4) Lecithin supplements?
It just seems to me that the prevalence of this condition has grown significantly, so I wonder if there is some other lifestyle connection. Thanks for any answers.
Does this mean I have to shave??
Hi, I take a lot of soy lecithin. In fact, I take it daily in the form of six pills. Also, from time to time I do use aspirin... maybe a few times a month.
If you use soolantra it won't matter what you do and do not ingest. Soolantra is so far the only way to fix our condition. You're wasting your time with anything else.
I'll keep it short. Cetaphil (bar) soap for dry skin. I've dealt with this problem for decades and tried many remedies. I googled it over a year ago and this was one of the sites I bookmarked so I figured I would let everyone know what worked for me. I was using Cetaphil soap for years on the rest of my body but never thought to use it as 'shampoo' for my beard. I didn't have anything to lose so I tried it about a month ago and it is about 95% effective. It is moderately expensive soap (about $4 a bar) but as far as I am concerned it is a bargain!
It worked for me so I STRONGLY recommend you give Cetaphil (bar) soap for dry skin a try.