Seborrheic Dermatitis: Mustache, Beard, and Scalp
56 answers - active on Dec 23rd 2021
SEBORRHEIC DERMATITIS: MUSTACHE, BEARD, AND SCALP AREA.
As a General Practice Physician, who has suffered with this same condition discussed in this forum for over 20 years, I have decided to respond with a long post. I shall attempt to tell you more than you care to know about this nagging condition, in hopes that you may find peace and solice from this troubling, tormenting, time-consuming, financially-draining, and self-defeating disease.
If I help one person to take control of this condition, it was worth my time.
The vast majority of the posts I have read, seem to suffer from CLASSIC: Seborrheic Dermatitis (As I have for years). And, some of you may have a mild component of "Rosacea" (a redness disorder, extreme sensitivity to any facial product, sunlight, and possibly foods), or "Psoriasis" (a cell-turnover disorder or "skin shedding disorder") mixed-in with your "Seb Derm".
In this post, I will attempt to tell you: 1) the basic CLASSIC MEDICAL APPROACH to treatment of this Seb Derm; and 2) methods that may not be completely conventional, but are based on MEDICAL SCIENCE and have been shown to work in many cases.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND, THAT THE SKIN IS A UNIQUE ENTITY. NO TWO SKIN CONDITIONS ARE THE SAME. This is largely because of genetic factors, skin type, ethnicity, climate, and even your state of "hydration" can affect your skin. SO, WHAT WORKS FOR ONE PERSON, MAY NOT WORK FOR YOU. TREATING SKIN CONDITIONS IS LARGELY TRIAL AND ERROR.
With Seborrheic Dermatitis, A.K.A. "Seborrhea", A.K.A. "Dandruff" in common terms (A.K.A. "Cradle Cap" in Babies) one will have: 1) crusting/flaking in any of these areas: mustache, beard, or scalp. 2) itching; 3) redness. There may also occasionally be a "greasy" clearish-yellow, oily "ooze" from these areas, during a severe flare-up (this is "sebum", flowing from the inflamed sebum glands).
As a physician, I can tell you that [medical school teaches] that this is caused by a yeast called Malassezia furfur, formerly known as Pityrosporum ovale, on the skin surface, which over a period of days overgrows leading to an ARMY of yeast on the skin surface. These yeast release mycolic acids on the skin, which are very irritating to it. This also alters skin pH.
You then..... S C R A T C H like a mangy dog! You rub BACTERIA + YEAST into your broken skin, further irritating it.
It does not appreciate this!
It gets MAD! The fact that you just mowed the lawn, and sweat like a water buffalo also helps the yeast to grow, as they love the warm humid environment.
Now. Something that med school DID NOT and still to my knowledge DOES NOT [YET] teach, but [MOST] Dermatologists, and other Physicians accept as another important contributing factor to "Seb Derm" can be [get ready, I hope you are sitting down], face mites.
Now, these are primarily associated with Rosacea, not seb derm. However, there is becoming more evidence to show that there is more overlap between these two diseases. These "FACE MITES" are actual little bugs, also known as "eyelash mites", that live down in the base of the hair follice, inside the Sebum gland. The more scientific name of this mite is called Demodex folliculorum. In dogs, a variant similar to this is what causes "Red Mange". If you would like to see a picture of these mites just google them.
Now that I have you totally scared to death: Realize this- EVERYONE has these mites normally- to some degree. These live on everyone. However, those with Rosacea, and [probably] seb derm as well, have MASSIVE AMOUNTS of these mites on their faces and skin surface. These mites, both male and female, only come out at night, while you are sleeping, they breed, and then crawl back into their hole, which is: the Sebum Gland. All these mites living in your sebum gland help keep it inflamed and irritated, and encourage it to pour out sebum. (theoretically). This thick oily sebum, is then "Thanksgiving Dinner" for the YEAST!
So, the COMBINATION: 1) YEAST; + 2) FACE MITES; and 3) NORMAL FACE BACTERIA; (particularly Staph), tends to keep your face in a Royal Mess!
It is speculated that the reason one person gets seb derm, but another person does NOT get seb derm, is because of TWO FACTORS:
1) GENETICS- Seb Derm itself, is not inherited; however, the tendency to GET Seb derm IS inherited. What one actually inherits, is an INABILITY of the immune system to [for some reason] fight off either the fungus, or the face mites, or both ==> ultimately allowing fungal overgrowth and redness and itching.
2) IMMUNE SYSTEM VULNERABILITES- If you have had Seb Derm since, let's say, High School, you most likely have the genetic type. If however, you are well into adulthood, and suddenly develop Seb Derm for the first time ever, and have never had any "dandruff" type problems before- you should probably ask your doctor to do some blood work to check your immune system- as SEB DERM can be the FIRST SIGN of other more serious IMMUNE DISORDERS. (Don't panic here folks, just ask them and get it checked) (all of the ones I am talking about are very treatable).
GENERAL TIPS:
1. Realize that this disease requires DAILY DISCIPLINE/MAINTENANCE/PAMPERING OF YOUR SKIN, or it will get worse.
2. Depression and Anxiety will worsen this disorder. (they cause an elevation of cortisol, which the yeast thrive on!). So get any emotional problems treated by a professional, if you are depressed or anxious- this should help your skin!
3. You must have meticulous hygiene, and you can no longer be "the lazy cave man, who says "oh I'll shave tomorrow....next week".
4. Take charge, and this thing cannot control your life.
5. Read everything you can get your hands on, and educate yourselves about the 3 conditions I have discussed, from CREDIBLE sources. BE SURE they are CREDIBLE sources folks. Some might be, ***edited by moderator*** web addresses not allowed, etc.
Go to your local library if necessary. Print up articles. File them. Become your own expert.
6. Go to a Good Dermatologist who will spend time with you, or even a family doctor if they are willing to work with you and spend time with you and listen to you. A good doctor is not always the one with the most qualifications, but the one with the investigative wit, tenacity, and interest in your case. If you are not happy- MOVE ON TO ANOTHER DOCTOR.
7. You may want to bring articles of interest (i.e., pictures of the face mites) to your doctor for discussion for emphasis. (these mites are actually NEW in medicine, and many doctors are unaware of them).
8. Don't be afraid of making your doctor mad, or of getting another doctor, if he is not willing to hear what you have to say and try to seek out the best treatment. THIS IS NOT A POPULARITY CONTEST. YOUR HEALTH COMES FIRST.
9. Consider asking your doc to test you for: 1) immune deficiencies, and 2) Auto-immune disorders (i.e., Lupus, etc.)
10. INSIST on a "Demodex Scraping" if you are at a dermatologist who is familiar with them, and/or does them. (they will look at a scraping under the microscope for the face mites). (you can just ask the derm's nurse if they ever do demodex scrapings, she'll know)
11. INSIST on a SCRAPING of the RASH for YEAST CULTURES, BACTERIAL CULTURES, and HISTOLOGY. Tell them you want to know a "Laboratory Confirmed Diagnosis", not just a "Clinical Diagnosis". (the fungal cultures will take weeks to get back, but it's worth it- mark your calendar, and CALL THEM to follow up, don't expect them to call you, nowadays, medical mishaps happen way too often).
12. Once 9, 10, 11, is done- a more concrete diagnosis can be reached, things can be excluded, and treatment can be guided to your specific situation.
13. Steroid Creams will usually get your condition under control fast. The tradeoff: they will cause THINNING of the skin over time and can cause "red blood vessels" to become visible on your face. (this is part of Rosacea, called telengectasias). Steroids can also cause "rebound" or withdrawal flareups.
Do do I use steroid cream? Yes. There is a place for them in my opinion. But they should be used sparingly. I use a weak steroid ointment- for mild flares, or 1% hydrocortisone for more troublesome flares. However, if one maintains GOOD HYGIENE, and GOOD SKIN CARE, you will find it is very rare that he requires topical steroids. Even then, I would probably only use it when I needed a quick fix (i.e., such as social event coming up). Also, be very careful of the STRENGTH of steroid cream you put on your face- make sure it is one for the face. Using too potent a cream can thin the skin.
I intended to go more into the specific medications, but it is late at night, and I'm tired, so I will just tell JUST A FEW of my favorite meds (and some OTHER TIPS) and you can ask your docs about them. Here goes:
PRESCRIPTION ONLY:
Nizoral Cream (Ketoconazole Cream 2%) - Still one of the best Antifungal Creams- works great to kill the specific yeast we discussed.
Nizoral Shampoo (Ketoconazole Shampoo 2%)
Permethrin Cream - great to kill the demodex face mites. (also kills scabies, lice, etc); good for those with pustules/acne;
Metrogel- an antifungal and antibiotic; reduces the demodex mite population on the skin.
Triamcinolone Ointment 0.1% - is a very weak steroid for the face; yet is very moisturizing; can be put on at night.
Hydrocortisone Cream 1% - or other steroid creams (there are many) for flairs.
RECOMMENDED OVER-THE-COUNTER FACIAL PRODUCTS:
Aveeno Positively Radiant Cleanser (or Pads)- The best, non-irritating facial cleanser- with nutrients, I have found; Buy at Walmart.
Shaving Cream: Nivea For Men, Sensitive Shaving Gel, Alcohol-Free (white/blue can) ; Wal-Mart
Nivea For Men, Sensitive Lotion; (apply within 2 minutes of shaving) (always keep face clean and moisturized) ("baby your skin")
BEST RAZOR:
Panasonic ES-LA93-K Vortex Men's Shaver- $192.26 at Amazon; I recommend switching to a VERY GOOD electric razor. This one is expensive, but worth it. It is also excellent for scalp shaving.
FOR SHAVING ON THE GO:
Braun M90 Mobile Shaver, $19.62 at Amazon, Great way to shave on the go, if you are a busy person.
(Note: I would recommend waiting until your face is doing well to switch razors, as to not further irritate it)
GENERAL TIPS: Maintaining good hydration and fluid balance (i.e., drinking water) is important for skin health. Maintain Good Nutrition, generally, I recommend a multi-vitamin, b-complex, and fish oil. (that's about it) (don't over do it on the supplements) (there are tons of claims out there, and I have yet to find any that work).
15-20 min. SUNLIGHT: HELPFUL for Seb Derm, but usually aggravates rosacea. You may have to experiment and see what works for you.
HOT WATER: DEFINITELY aggravates Rosacea; and to a lesser degree, Seb Derm. (best to use cool or tap water on face)
FOODS: Rosacea- often worsened by hot food, hot tea/coffee/beverages; Liquor; spicey foods such as jalapeno peppers, etc.; experiment!
NOTE: No Rubbing alcohol on face. Ever. This is known to provoke Rosacea.
VERY IMPORTANT: RULE OF THUMB IN REGARDS TO FACE PRODUCTS: IF IT BURNS WHEN YOU PUT IT ON YOUR FACE, DO NOT USE THE PRODUCT.
DO NOT USE SOAP ON THE FACE, ETC. - BABY YOUR FACE. USE THE CORRECT REGIMEN, ALL THE TIME, EVERYTIME.
GOOD LUCK GUYS,
Stewie, M.D.
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Sea salt dissolved in some warm water...... one tablespoon per cup....... spray on beard, moustache tzone area...... it will be uncomfortable for about twenty minutes..... and then it's amazing how it stops itching.........I do this and it works !!!! Forget the oils and so forth. Sea salt baby !!
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Have had this for 25 years and have used everything stewie mentioned but the ONLY thing that works for me is protopic. The stuff literally works after 24 hours and lasts for a week or 2 before having to reapply. I have found nothing else that works like the magical protopic.
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ok, I suffered for 22, but you beat me with the 25 year mark. Have a look at soolantra. Maybe you'll like it better than protopic.
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Thank you. I am having a night mare with it right now . Have sarcoidossis and had a lot of problems all relating to what you discussed. Mine has been manifesting and they have been trying everything. The mites are very interesting I will do more research and. Consult with my doctor..I have recently been prescribed nupriocin , been on about 4 days not much change so far. Also been on everything else you mentioned except Steroid cream . Have been given steroids orally but can't handle them . Make my neck.swell and get very tight ,dull headache all the time and mean. No way to live.
Jamesgolf, you might think this sounds crazy but pay attention to how much computer and cell phone you use. Try not to use those things for a few days straight (I know its impossible in 2016) and gauge the results.
Hi All
First let me say this post was probably the most informative I have encountered with regard to a condition I've lived with for quite some time. I visited a couple so called dermatologist over the years and lost all respect for them due to the practice of generalizing skin conditions as psoriasis, dermatitis, rosacea or eczema then throwing creams and ointments at me like confetti at a new years party. Lame!
I noticed my lovely condition coming into existence around age 18. I'm 46 now but remember certain areas of my skin showing signs of what looked like a redness or rash back then, around the face and some small areas on the inner part of both elbows. Of course this was 1988 and I had zero idea what the heck it was or what caused it and apparently neither did the "dermatologists" of that era.
My mind however was and still is somewhat fixated on the concept that a micro organism from an STD or whats now referred to as an STI was the trigger or perhaps underlying cause. I say this because it was shortly after becoming sexually active that this occurred and it drove me insane, made me super self conscious, and sparked me to have blood tests now and then to try and find out if I had contracted any known disease. To my surprise all tests were negative, but I still get this crazy sixth sense that somehow some kind of pesky microbe is tossing a wrench into the works.
By the way, no doc ever mentioned face mites to me! lol! That is super interesting in itself. I knew our bodies where basically walking zoos but never thought of face mites causing the redness in small patches on my face. Makes you wonder why only a certain area is affected and not the entire dermal layer. What is going on with that small plot of land which allows the little suckers to breed like rabbits and outstay their welcome? Hmmm...
Also is there any kind of Anti-Face Mite formula being looked into? Perhaps something toxic to them little suckers but not to us? Something to actually kill them off? I digress because that's just putting duck tape on the ripped pleather. I'd really like to know what is triggering this to happen.
I did notice that someone posting earlier as "itchy beard" mentioned they had the issue before becoming sexually active, but I would still like to know if others might be able to link the onset to a timeline coinciding with sexual activity.
I don't know about anyone else either, but this condition has made me hyper self-conscious my entire adult life which in turn created a somewhat introvert personality. Don't get me wrong, not awkward socially, just super aware of my face and how it looks instead of just being somewhere like other folk. It may not be a killer disease but it can kill your life in other ways as it did mine. Can't count how many girls I shied away from because I thought I was hideous to look at or because I thought I was like a leper or something. Not fun, not cool, and no, I didn't stay in school :-)
ok, dude. Here's the education seminar. The occurance of the outbreaks didn't necessarily start with you messing with girls, but rather with you 'coming of age'. At that point in your life, your body begins producing more sebum which is why teenagers are usually all oily, horny and pimply. These mites feed off the oil, and when they die your body has an allergic reaction to their decaying corpses. At least that's the going theory. If you get a prescription to Soolantra, you will be healed. Simple as that. Go onto Youtube and search Jennifer Brown Soolantra. Then do yourself a favor and get even more education over at oozing yellow crusts. You'll have to google it, but you'll find the site with everyone's comments and stories. Welcome to the club, but you're about to get healed. 2017 is going to be a transformative year for you.
How to get rid of red burns on upper lips
Are you retarded or something?
Tip:
Try unrefined coconut oil...and a raw foods based diet...so much info that's useful to combat the inevitably for all with these conditionsites.
This person came to this forum to ask a qualified question and hopefully get an informative answer as to what others have done to correct this problem. And what do you do but call him/her an offensive name. I'm not a PC freak, but this was way out of line.
Apple Cider Vinegar works wonders for me. You have to use it twice a day on a cotton ball diluted with warm water. It cleans the area very well and seems to keep the dryness at bay. Mind you I use virgin coconut oil in conjuction( applied after cleansing with ACV)
hi will rash go away if I shave the beard
I have been off Loratadine now for three weeks and in the past week have noticed a marked improvement in my skin. I did go through a tough two weeks with my sinuses, but had to do something because the scaly, flaky skin around my hair line and eyebrows got embarrassingly bad and noticeable. I'll report back again after a few months, but so far, quitting Loratadine has improved my condition better than anything I have tried in the last half decade.
Found this very helpful. Thank you. I had been quite healthy and active with an exciting career most of my life. Not until I hit my early 50's when my career began to slow down that scalp and beard itching and flaking, along with a wet dog odor became a steady occurrence. Doctors would barely acknowledge my questions. I am now 62 and the condition is pretty much full time. Needless to say I am under a lot of emotional stress when you combine a waning career, a troubled marriage, aging issues and always worrying about money. The attacking organisms are having a field day on my skin. Since 1982 I have practiced Siddha Yoga and found it to be very centering and great for controlling anxieties, but frankly, over the past 10 years, I gradually stopped my daily puja and turned to alcohol for anxiety relief. Of course we know that only makes matters worse. After reading your post just now, a light went off in my head. I realized that my skin and anxiety problems were essentially non existent while actively living as a Siddha. Perhaps all of this really is IN my head, not ON my head. On your inspiration I hope to get back on track with my meditation practices. Nothing else really works, so what do I have to loose? Thank you again!